I'm throwing in the towel!

[Daaaaaniel]

I have spent the past few years renovating. Almost all free time, evenings and weekends have been spent going out to the summer place to demolish, lay a new roof, drain, build a deck, and ponder the next step.

It's time to bring in the pros, real craftsmen.

I really only see two problems with this: my need for control and my sometimes absurd attention to detail. The problems are possibly related.

Are there any standards that one can require the builder to follow for things like drywalling? Is it as simple as with drywall there is a manual, and if the manual states that paper strips should be used for wooden houses in the joints, one can assume the builder will use paper strips and not fiberglass strips. When are metal angles versus paper angles needed, etc., on outer corners?

I know that for bathrooms there are industry regulations for tiles, waterproofing, etc., but is there something equivalent for installing, for example, ceilings, or is it again the product manual I should refer to in the contract?

What about windows? Are there industry regulations for how sealing should be done, with what material, etc.?

In summary, I wonder how I can avoid ending up with a shoddy build in the end? In other words, how can I go about ensuring that the builder uses the correct building technique at the various stages?

Possibly the wrong forum section, but if so, the moderator can move it.

I can relate to your feeling.
And unfortunately, the thing is that those who are so meticulous, or at least don’t take shortcuts, are so expensive that it’s practically impossible to hire them. Alternatively, they are so booked that it is almost impossible to hire them.

When I hire craftsmen, I am always at home. Monitoring everything. Continuously. I’m probably a really troublesome customer. I try to compensate for that by trying to be “cool” otherwise. The guy who did our bathroom likes cola - no problem, he has free access to cola when he's here working. He has to take the “bad” with the “good”. There were times I had to say, “this is not okay, I don’t accept this shortcut”. All in all, it has worked out quite well. And I have hired him again. And he wanted to come back to me, demanding as I am, but reasonably decent.

But I would never just let him loose. Unfortunately. Just have to accept it.

 

[-RB-]

As a business owner, I usually tell people who are going to redo their roof (almost only metal) to get 5-6 quotes. Remove the cheapest and the most expensive, then go with the one that feels best. Often, you quickly feel whether it will work out with the contractor or not. ALWAYS check what they have done before. Since you describe yourself as a picky and meticulous customer, make it easier for both you and the contractor by making a long list of exactly how you want it, with as much detail as possible. I once had a customer who wanted a new 120 sqm roof. He made 11 pages of information and wanted a price on 54 different parts. Needless to say, we didn't get that customer. Good luck and don't pay anything in advance.

The question is how to get hold of 5-6 quotes. It can be tricky enough to get one.

 

[Derbyboy]

Furthermore, it might be difficult to compare quotes if I plan to go with a running account. At least in terms of the price.

 

[AndersS]

Moreover, it may be difficult to compare quotes if I plan to run on an ongoing account. At least regarding the price.

You're not making it easy for yourself based on how you describe yourself.

 

[Derbyboy]

You're not making it easy for yourself based on how you describe yourself.

Ok, how do I make it easier for myself?

That it is difficult for me is evident from the thread. However, my thoughts don't seem to be entirely uncommon.

 

[Daaaaaniel]

Ok, how do I make it easier for myself?

That it's difficult for me is made abundantly clear from the thread. My thoughts, however, do not seem to be entirely uncommon.

"Craft" as a profession, service, industry, or however you want to name it, is... interesting.

If you hire a lawyer, you want them to do a good job.
If you hire a taxi driver, you want them to drive you safely to the right place.
If you hire a hairdresser, you want them to cut your hair properly. Not just at the front where you can see, but also at the back of the neck, where you can't see.
If you hire a car mechanic, you want them to repair your car properly, with good parts. Not patch up something broken with duct tape when you're not looking.

Buuuut when you hire a craftsman, yes, then you're expected to just accept that you're hiring an industry where it's more or less customary to take some shortcuts, where the job might not be completely thorough. And if you want the job to be done properly, and as a buyer of the service, if you occasionally want to check the service you're paying for, well then you have to work on yourself instead; your expectations and your control needs.

 

[Jonas786]

I had hired a local firm that cares about its reputation and is well-renowned. Then have an hour session and talk through what level of finish you want. That they build "correctly" is something you have to trust. You might be able to do the finish yourself afterward.

 

[Klicka]

Or if you know how to do everything, you could perhaps take a leave of absence so you can fix everything yourself. It will probably be cheaper too.

 

[AndersS]

Ok, how do I make it easier for myself?
.

I actually don't know, there are no general rules, so you'll probably have to try for yourself based on the requirements you've described in the thread.
There are plenty of skilled craftsmen, and the concept should probably be divided into professional categories and areas of activity.
And then there are companies that perform various tasks/jobs requiring different professional skills/craftsmen.
At home, I do most things myself with a little help from various craftsmen.
In the holiday home, sometimes a firm is hired that takes full responsibility; the assignment is specified in the fall and should be completed by a certain date in the spring, and they have free rein to plan. I trust them fully, e.g., for the bathroom, the requirements for the shower corner were clear glass, 90*90, mid-range from a well-known brand. Four spotlights in the ceiling with a dimmer. Fan with humidity automation and timer controlled with a push button, quietest. And so it continues.
I can trust them, and this is probably where your main issue lies: can you find the equivalent based on your need for detail/control?
Or must you take on the role of builder as well as construction manager?

 

[Derbyboy]

I think it's a process. Hopefully, I will find someone I can trust and of course, there are skilled and meticulous craftsmen who are keen on doing a good job.

How does it work when the craftsmen buy the shower glass? Do they add 100-200 percent on the price like electricians do or do you pay what it costs at Bauhaus? It's obvious that you have to pay for the time it takes to get there.

 

[AndersS]

I do not look at the details but focus on the big picture, I don't know where they source materials and I don't care about the unit price. For example, I sometimes use materials of higher quality as I require minimizing maintenance.
I usually get an approximate price for the assignment, which doesn't differ too much.

 

[Raimo T]

I have spent the past few years renovating. Almost all of my free time, evenings, and weekends have been spent going out to the summer house to demolish, lay a new roof, drain, build a deck, and think about the next step.

It's time to bring in the pros, real craftsmen.

I really only see two problems with this, and that is my need for control and my sometimes absurd attention to detail in the work. The problems may be related.

Are there any standards that I can require the builder to follow when, for example, drywalling? Is it as simple as following a manual for drywall, and if the manual states that paper tape should be used for wood houses in the joints, can one assume that the builder will indeed use paper tape and not fiberglass tape? When are metal angles needed versus paper angles in outer corners?

I know there are industry regulations for bathrooms regarding tiles, waterproofing, etc., but is there something similar for installing, for example, a ceiling, or is it again the product's manual that I should refer to in the contract?

What about windows? Are there industry regulations for how sealing should be done, with which materials, etc.?

In summary, I wonder how I can avoid ending up with a botched job in the end? In other words, how can I go about ensuring, as much as possible, that the builder uses the correct building techniques for the various steps?

Possibly the wrong forum section, but if so, a moderator can move it.

Let a friend who has some building knowledge join in on the renovation. It's not wrong to have someone look at the build with fresh eyes. It's so darn easy to "get stuck" on one type of solution to the problems.

 

[AndersS]

It was my wife who put a stop to my projects in the vacation house.
She made an overall plan and I was to execute it without any personal involvement.
The company that carries out the work refuses assignments with the customer's involvement and the customer saying "I'll fix that later." Everything must be complete at the walkthrough and the company owner checks together with us.

 

[jonas007]

Sweaty with 4990 plus VAT

is it usually referred to AMA when private individuals hire a craftsman for a total renovation?

Can be downloaded if you google a bit, if you do an inspection they will base it on that unless you've agreed otherwise, as it is industry standard and since you are a private individual, the Consumer Services Act refers specifically to industry standard...

 

[Erik Salhammar]

A bit off topic, but when I worked at an interior joinery once upon a time, we had an insanely picky CNC-guy. You could hear him shouting out loud -What kind of damn hjon of a supplier are these MDF boards from? "One is 15.96mm and the next one is 16.04mm, it's all going to be crap"

there is eight millimeters difference. Almost a whole centimeter... not okay!!