Is this acceptable for door frame installation by an experienced carpenter?
Can't you show images that display more of the entirety? As it is now, everything looks quite slanted in yet another "blame-the-craftsman" thread. Additionally, you omit information and/or ignore certain questions that are very relevant in assessing how well these frames are mounted.
Can't you cover the damages with a wall socket? No, but seriously, I think it's better if you do all the work yourself at home from now on. You seem to know how it should be done. This way you'll avoid all future problems as well.
After installing lots of doors and windows, at least about twenty, I think you should consider the responses here that defend the craftsman and the difficulties this work entails. I have never encountered a wall that is perfectly level, which results in the frame protruding somewhere, easily resolved with a lining.
Plasterboard has the advantage of being very easy to repair, takes little time, and always looks nice. Look at different plasterboard filler products at your building supplies store and you will find many different and good products. Personally, I use Ardex A45 or 828 with great satisfaction as they provide excellent results, fill remarkably well, and are easy to finish for a perfect result. Good luck.
Plasterboard has the advantage of being very easy to repair, takes little time, and always looks nice. Look at different plasterboard filler products at your building supplies store and you will find many different and good products. Personally, I use Ardex A45 or 828 with great satisfaction as they provide excellent results, fill remarkably well, and are easy to finish for a perfect result. Good luck.
Member
· Västra Götaland
· 17 posts
We are the ones who cut away the paper, the carpenter left the plaster completely crumbled behind the paper and pretended nothing was wrong.
And the fact is that the carpenter also put up the wall and he knew the measurements we had for the frame.
And the fact is that the carpenter also put up the wall and he knew the measurements we had for the frame.
It is visible in the first two pictures that the studs are slightly inside the drywall, in other words, it would have been easy to saw/cut away some drywall before the door frame was installed.
In picture three, it looks like the frame sticks out equally all the way, so the wall seems to be plumb if the frame is plumb, in other words, the frame seems to be "sloppily set."
In picture three, it looks like the frame sticks out equally all the way, so the wall seems to be plumb if the frame is plumb, in other words, the frame seems to be "sloppily set."
Now as I read the thread I realize it may appear so and that was not my intention, nor do I think it was anyone else's. The job is not well done unless there are special reasons that haven't been mentioned in the thread. And even then, it wouldn't be okay as the OP should have been informed about this. However, I don't want to shame the craftsman due to scant information.OveRaskopp said:
S
SueCia
Electronics enthusiast
· Dalarna
· 5 516 posts
SueCia
Electronics enthusiast
- Dalarna
- 5,516 posts
If the damage is hidden by trim, then yes, what do you expect? That he should replace the entire drywall with plastering and the whole kit for you because of damage that will be hidden by moldings and never bother you again after that?Noggrann_husägare said:
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That is somewhat the general opinion in the construction business, yes.Noggrann_husägare said:
If the damage to the plaster in the corner and the pinch damage to the frame in the same corner are covered by the door trim, then there's nothing to discuss. (I would have been just as annoyed as TS about the unnecessary damage, but very satisfied when it was done and the trim covered the damage...)
It's quite common for it to be impossible to align a door frame evenly with the wall and at the same time get the door level. I've personally encountered both door frames and wall studs that are not perfectly straight, differing up to 4 mm from the standard value (e.g., a 45 mm stud that is only 41 mm). Wood is a living material and has these kinds of "deviations," which means that if there's a millimeter-precision fit between the door frame and wall thickness and/or door frame and door opening in the wall, it easily/often becomes a problem. Adding an old house to this, which often deviates significantly more in precision than newly built houses, means that proper craftsmanship is always needed to make everything come together in the end to an acceptable appearance.
I'm not a craftsman myself, but I act like one in my own house and outbuildings. Old, renovated, rebuilt, expanded several times over the years. I can't recall a single job I've done where it wasn't necessary to tailor solutions and try to fool the eye to make it work.
As previously noted, we are not aware of the circumstances regarding the tasks included in the work time, which can enormously affect things. But assuming the door openings existed and it was just a matter of taking two door frames and mounting them, 5-6 hours for a carpenter seems unreasonable. For me as an amateur the first time I'm installing a door, yes, but not for a professional carpenter. (However, even a professional carpenter may perhaps never have dealt with door installation before, I guess, and then it takes longer even for them, but it still shouldn't take that long. Once the first one is mounted and you've learned the hard way what works and what doesn't, the installation of the second one goes much faster.)
It's quite common for it to be impossible to align a door frame evenly with the wall and at the same time get the door level. I've personally encountered both door frames and wall studs that are not perfectly straight, differing up to 4 mm from the standard value (e.g., a 45 mm stud that is only 41 mm). Wood is a living material and has these kinds of "deviations," which means that if there's a millimeter-precision fit between the door frame and wall thickness and/or door frame and door opening in the wall, it easily/often becomes a problem. Adding an old house to this, which often deviates significantly more in precision than newly built houses, means that proper craftsmanship is always needed to make everything come together in the end to an acceptable appearance.
I'm not a craftsman myself, but I act like one in my own house and outbuildings. Old, renovated, rebuilt, expanded several times over the years. I can't recall a single job I've done where it wasn't necessary to tailor solutions and try to fool the eye to make it work.
As previously noted, we are not aware of the circumstances regarding the tasks included in the work time, which can enormously affect things. But assuming the door openings existed and it was just a matter of taking two door frames and mounting them, 5-6 hours for a carpenter seems unreasonable. For me as an amateur the first time I'm installing a door, yes, but not for a professional carpenter. (However, even a professional carpenter may perhaps never have dealt with door installation before, I guess, and then it takes longer even for them, but it still shouldn't take that long. Once the first one is mounted and you've learned the hard way what works and what doesn't, the installation of the second one goes much faster.)
The damages you claim as vandalism and god knows what else are completely normal construction damages that occur almost every day. They can be due to several factors. Someone might have taken a panel placed on the floor and then it got a bit scuffed at the corner. Perhaps the corner stuck out past the studs and it was hit with the frame when setting it in place, etc. As long as such damage as you've shown is covered by the trim, and in your case, a regular 56mm trim covers it. It's clear that the wall isn't even finished and painted. Had you pointed out that you would've preferred if the carpenter filled it with some joint compound, he would likely have done so. Generally speaking, time is not spent on things that will never be seen. Simply because it costs money, which you typically complain about every day.
You continually leave out information and do not want to say whether the wall is straight or skewed. A door and frame are ALWAYS set plumb regardless of the wall's tilt unless otherwise desired. It is not uncommon for a door frame to sometimes stick out beyond the wall in some direction. This can be solved with trim if it occurs. The time of 6 hours cannot be commented on either since we don't know the conditions. Installing a door + frame can take anything from 20 minutes to 8 hours or more. It all depends on the circumstances.
But if your craftsman came to a completely finished opening and he was "just" supposed to install the frame including the door and not even mount the trim, etc., then an hour per door is more suitable. Plus the time to bring in the tools/frames, etc.
But as I said, when you deliberately don't want to answer certain details, I think there's more behind this. The damages you've mentioned are at least nothing strange that they could occur, and if they're covered by the trims you're supposed to have, there's nothing to make a big deal out of. But given your tone from the start, this won't reach you. Instead, you'll think it's vandalism regardless.
You continually leave out information and do not want to say whether the wall is straight or skewed. A door and frame are ALWAYS set plumb regardless of the wall's tilt unless otherwise desired. It is not uncommon for a door frame to sometimes stick out beyond the wall in some direction. This can be solved with trim if it occurs. The time of 6 hours cannot be commented on either since we don't know the conditions. Installing a door + frame can take anything from 20 minutes to 8 hours or more. It all depends on the circumstances.
But if your craftsman came to a completely finished opening and he was "just" supposed to install the frame including the door and not even mount the trim, etc., then an hour per door is more suitable. Plus the time to bring in the tools/frames, etc.
But as I said, when you deliberately don't want to answer certain details, I think there's more behind this. The damages you've mentioned are at least nothing strange that they could occur, and if they're covered by the trims you're supposed to have, there's nothing to make a big deal out of. But given your tone from the start, this won't reach you. Instead, you'll think it's vandalism regardless.
Member
· Västra Götaland
· 17 posts
It is the first time we have a carpenter at home, so we have no experience of how it should be done or what is considered usual and what to expect. Hence the thread in this forum 
The doors are level, meaning they stay where you leave them without moving in any direction.
The craftsman made both door openings on a previous occasion, and all tools and frames were in place when he was to install them. The plaster was intact and nice before the frames were put in place.
I haven't mentioned vandalism, but I don't see how this has been done in a careful manner either.
The doors are level, meaning they stay where you leave them without moving in any direction.
The craftsman made both door openings on a previous occasion, and all tools and frames were in place when he was to install them. The plaster was intact and nice before the frames were put in place.
I haven't mentioned vandalism, but I don't see how this has been done in a careful manner either.
Well, I don't think it's that simple.
It will probably be okay once the trims are installed, but the door opening is a bit too small, and the door frame is forced into place instead of adjusting the opening. Also, it's the same carpenter who did everything. Getting a door opening in an interior wall within tolerance isn't difficult, routine for a professional carpenter.
Then you have to wonder how they manage the installation of trims when the sum of the door opening construction + door installation looks like that...??
It will probably be okay once the trims are installed, but the door opening is a bit too small, and the door frame is forced into place instead of adjusting the opening. Also, it's the same carpenter who did everything. Getting a door opening in an interior wall within tolerance isn't difficult, routine for a professional carpenter.
Then you have to wonder how they manage the installation of trims when the sum of the door opening construction + door installation looks like that...??
If the same carpenter did everything (made the hole and installed the door), it is strange.
Ask the carpenter why the door isn't flush with the wall and why it took three hours per door.
Maybe the frame and door are of different thicknesses, maybe there was a stud right there, maybe.........
Hold off on payment until you have received an answer.
I wouldn't have accepted it without an explanation.
Ask the carpenter why the door isn't flush with the wall and why it took three hours per door.
Maybe the frame and door are of different thicknesses, maybe there was a stud right there, maybe.........
Hold off on payment until you have received an answer.
I wouldn't have accepted it without an explanation.