Hello,
We moved to a house 8-9 months ago and are considering taking a week off to replace the kitchen. The dimensions are 4.7 x 3.7, i.e., approx. 17 square meters. The idea is to have one of the short sides clad with kitchen cabinets, stove, sink, and stone countertop.
We haven't decided yet about the long side, other than that it will consist of larger cabinets with a built-in oven, which may require some electrical work (considering that the oven is currently on the other wall).
The ceiling will be replaced with some form of plaster ceiling, likely with spotlights, which might also require an electrician.
The floor will be some type of parquet that can be sanded.
There will be 2 of us who have so far done simpler tasks like laying tiles and similar work. We will also have help from someone with much more experience (though without having worked professionally in the field).
How long can we expect this to take? Are we talking about 1 week? 1 month?
I understand that this is a very rough estimate, but you probably have a better sense of this than we do. Our estimate of laying 28 square meters of tiles in a weekend was, to say the least, miscalculated
We moved to a house 8-9 months ago and are considering taking a week off to replace the kitchen. The dimensions are 4.7 x 3.7, i.e., approx. 17 square meters. The idea is to have one of the short sides clad with kitchen cabinets, stove, sink, and stone countertop.
We haven't decided yet about the long side, other than that it will consist of larger cabinets with a built-in oven, which may require some electrical work (considering that the oven is currently on the other wall).
The ceiling will be replaced with some form of plaster ceiling, likely with spotlights, which might also require an electrician.
The floor will be some type of parquet that can be sanded.
There will be 2 of us who have so far done simpler tasks like laying tiles and similar work. We will also have help from someone with much more experience (though without having worked professionally in the field).
How long can we expect this to take? Are we talking about 1 week? 1 month?
I understand that this is a very rough estimate, but you probably have a better sense of this than we do. Our estimate of laying 28 square meters of tiles in a weekend was, to say the least, miscalculated
Yes, something like that, probably a bit more. (if I interpret 1 week and a few weekends as 2 x 40 + 3 x 2 x 8 = 128 man-hours)
When my kitchen was renovated, not by myself, but by carpenters/electricians/tilers/plumbers, it took close to 140 hours. A slightly smaller kitchen than yours, but I don't think the floor space is decisive. A wall towards the adjacent living room was also torn down. In addition, there was an electrician for about 30 hours. That expense was higher than I expected, but appliances were placed in new locations with new wiring going down to the electrical panel, with heavy-duty wires and separate circuits for the machines where needed. Recessed spotlights in the ceiling, drivers neatly placed behind a false wall in the upper cabinets, and several new outlets. Grounded where it wasn't before. The wall that was removed also contained a lot of electrical and telecom wiring.
As with yours, a new floor, as well as painted walls.
The work was neatly done without any strange creative shortcuts. Everything still looks just as good after several years.
When you start moving appliances, it involves a lot of electrical and possibly fan/chimney as well as plumbing work. If the kitchen isn't well planned today, you should naturally change it, but think twice; someone has probably put a lot of planning into the current setup and concluded that it was the best (at that time with those requirements).
In summary, I believe one week off is not enough to replace the kitchen with the conditions you describe. After a week, you will neither have the old nor the new kitchen usable... At least one more week. Keep in mind that lead time and working time are not the same thing (if you're getting external help for electrical, plumbing, and something else, there will be waiting times between phases unless they are standing outside waiting already).
When my kitchen was renovated, not by myself, but by carpenters/electricians/tilers/plumbers, it took close to 140 hours. A slightly smaller kitchen than yours, but I don't think the floor space is decisive. A wall towards the adjacent living room was also torn down. In addition, there was an electrician for about 30 hours. That expense was higher than I expected, but appliances were placed in new locations with new wiring going down to the electrical panel, with heavy-duty wires and separate circuits for the machines where needed. Recessed spotlights in the ceiling, drivers neatly placed behind a false wall in the upper cabinets, and several new outlets. Grounded where it wasn't before. The wall that was removed also contained a lot of electrical and telecom wiring.
As with yours, a new floor, as well as painted walls.
The work was neatly done without any strange creative shortcuts. Everything still looks just as good after several years.
When you start moving appliances, it involves a lot of electrical and possibly fan/chimney as well as plumbing work. If the kitchen isn't well planned today, you should naturally change it, but think twice; someone has probably put a lot of planning into the current setup and concluded that it was the best (at that time with those requirements).
In summary, I believe one week off is not enough to replace the kitchen with the conditions you describe. After a week, you will neither have the old nor the new kitchen usable... At least one more week. Keep in mind that lead time and working time are not the same thing (if you're getting external help for electrical, plumbing, and something else, there will be waiting times between phases unless they are standing outside waiting already).
We had a carpenter here and with the help of an electrician and röris it took 1 week and on the last day he had 2 carpenters here to help. And then he rarely went home at 4 PM but often continued until 5:30-6 PM..... And then we kept the ceiling. So nja, 1 week sounds tight
Consider exactly which tasks you/you all shall do and then calculate how much time each task takes.
For example:
Remove the old: 8 hours
Lay the floor: 8 hours
Plaster walls: 4 hours
Paint walls: 4 hours
Assemble cabinets/drawers: 8 hours
Install cabinet frames: 6 hours
Moldings: 8 hours
Tile: x hours
Etc.
Then maybe you can do part of the job beforehand, e.g., assemble cabinets. And which things you might be able to do afterwards, etc.
It is often easier to estimate times on smaller tasks.
This also helps you find out which materials you need to buy so that you don't end up going to the store frequently.
For example:
Remove the old: 8 hours
Lay the floor: 8 hours
Plaster walls: 4 hours
Paint walls: 4 hours
Assemble cabinets/drawers: 8 hours
Install cabinet frames: 6 hours
Moldings: 8 hours
Tile: x hours
Etc.
Then maybe you can do part of the job beforehand, e.g., assemble cabinets. And which things you might be able to do afterwards, etc.
It is often easier to estimate times on smaller tasks.
This also helps you find out which materials you need to buy so that you don't end up going to the store frequently.
For every hour spent on planning, you save two hours in execution. I would say it can be achieved with 10h planning and 70h work.
I didn't want to be without a kitchen for so long, so I assembled all the cabinets in advance and planned a lot with a careful timetable.
I didn't want to be without a kitchen for so long, so I assembled all the cabinets in advance and planned a lot with a careful timetable.
It depends on experience, if and how long you have to wait for e.g. plumbers, electricians. If you have the right tools or need to go and rent something (sheet lift). A week sounds optimistic. Maybe you can prepare and assemble frames in a garage in advance? Something you need to order and wait for?
My friend and I demolished a kitchen, spackled and painted walls, laid click flooring, installed a new kitchen with pre-made cabinets in about 120 hours. We are fairly experienced with craftsman work but not specifically with kitchens. The electrician who came to groove the walls and the plumber's time were additional.
So, it’s better to estimate 2 weeks for 2 people who are inexperienced.
Planning as dsub is great IF you have some idea of how long it will take, if you've never done the tasks before it's really hard to know if it'll take 1 hour or 5 hours.
So, it’s better to estimate 2 weeks for 2 people who are inexperienced.
Planning as dsub is great IF you have some idea of how long it will take, if you've never done the tasks before it's really hard to know if it'll take 1 hour or 5 hours.
Perhaps efficient time, but coordinating everything...
demolition with removal (car, trailer, recycling center hours)
wrong delivery, complementing and wrong purchase of parts/tools
craftsmen's preparations and completion
What does a kitchen carpenter cost if you work that week instead? You can do the demolition the weekend before, he works during the days and you build the frames in the evening for him to install.
Interior in frames you do the weekend after.
demolition with removal (car, trailer, recycling center hours)
wrong delivery, complementing and wrong purchase of parts/tools
craftsmen's preparations and completion
What does a kitchen carpenter cost if you work that week instead? You can do the demolition the weekend before, he works during the days and you build the frames in the evening for him to install.
Interior in frames you do the weekend after.
Very good information, it seems like 2 weeks is what it takes. But we will do exactly as dsub suggests and outline everything that needs to be done. Once we have a plan, I will write it in the thread here so you can surely add anything we haven't thought of.
Tonight, we sketched out the kitchen in Ikea's program, and the estimated price based on this was 100,000 - 120,000 SEK including everything. The kitchen itself was about 70,000 SEK, but then there's always a lot more around it. We can probably get closer to a final total once we've specified everything that needs to be done.
Right now, we will first go out and see which kitchens are available within the budget we've planned; pictures online, unfortunately, don't say much.
Tonight, we sketched out the kitchen in Ikea's program, and the estimated price based on this was 100,000 - 120,000 SEK including everything. The kitchen itself was about 70,000 SEK, but then there's always a lot more around it. We can probably get closer to a final total once we've specified everything that needs to be done.
Right now, we will first go out and see which kitchens are available within the budget we've planned; pictures online, unfortunately, don't say much.
70000 sounded like a lot for a "normal-sized" kitchen for Ikea, but perhaps you have chosen Ikea's most expensive doors and countertops?
53,000 SEK and the following are missing:
- Stone countertop, estimated to cost 25,000 SEK
- Ceiling, maybe 5,000 SEK?
- Flooring, estimated at 8,000 SEK
- Tiles, estimated 1,500 SEK
- Microwave with convection 3,000 SEK
- A few extra cabinets, e.g., above fridge and freezer plus some lists 2,000 SEK
- Electrician to install wiring 1,500 SEK?
- Spotlights in the coarser ceiling list and ceiling 3,000 SEK?
Total 102,000 SEK
The prices are very rough estimates as we haven't had time to sit down with it, we want to first look at some kitchens in reality.
Keep in mind that shipping/delivery of large stone slabs is insanely expensive. If they are large and weigh several hundred kg, it takes several people to carry them.
For 1500, you don't get much from the electrician, like going back and forth and doing an hour's work.
For 1500, you don't get much from the electrician, like going back and forth and doing an hour's work.
Electricians can charge 500-800 kr per hour and at least one day to move electricity and install new wiring, pick up materials, etc. etc.
The new stuff will be placed more or less in the same spot as before, but sure, wiring needs to be done for the spots and outlets. I'm not sure how much I'll do myself here but it feels like spots are something I could fix myself.
But indeed, electrician pricing is underestimated. Based on previous jobs they've done here in the past months, it would probably be 3000-5000 kr.
Yes, it's probably expensive to transport stone; in this case, it will likely be 2 parts almost 3 meters long. However, I remember that Ikea had a version that wasn't solid but just a few cm that then lay on a chipboard, maybe that's enough? But otherwise, I suspect the price will be around 25,000 kr. For the counter that's supposed to be by the fridge, we were probably thinking of choosing some wood panel instead of stone (as in the picture).
But indeed, electrician pricing is underestimated. Based on previous jobs they've done here in the past months, it would probably be 3000-5000 kr.
Yes, it's probably expensive to transport stone; in this case, it will likely be 2 parts almost 3 meters long. However, I remember that Ikea had a version that wasn't solid but just a few cm that then lay on a chipboard, maybe that's enough? But otherwise, I suspect the price will be around 25,000 kr. For the counter that's supposed to be by the fridge, we were probably thinking of choosing some wood panel instead of stone (as in the picture).