Hello!
My girlfriend and I have bought an apartment of 70 m2, and in 2 weeks we will get the keys and immediately start the renovation.
When we were in the apartment, we noticed that the floor sloped in several places, and after doing some research, I found out that at the time this building was constructed, they leveled the concrete slab with sand. Over time, it can settle in some high traffic areas, like thresholds, kitchens, etc.
There is parquet flooring in the living room; the rest of the apartment has linoleum.
We want to lay one type of flooring throughout the apartment, without thresholds (so the rooms flow together).
And I've heard that this only works if you choose laminate flooring, as wood floors move with the seasons.
When I talked to a floor layer, he suggested we choose parquet flooring, now that we are tearing out all the flooring and leveling the sand.
But since we want a dark walnut floor, this will cost us at least 450 SEK/m2.
If we instead choose to lay chipboard and walnut laminate, the total cost will be about 250 SEK/m2.
Now to my questions...
1. What is the process if I choose to level the sand, lay floor chipboard and laminate, what should one stand on during leveling, etc.?
2. How thick should the chipboard be?
3. What do I do at doorways? (I've heard that you should only do one room at a time when leveling the sand).
4. How do I make sure the sand doesn't creep up along the walls?
Then I wonder what you others would choose, laminate or parquet?
How much would choosing parquet increase the value at a sale?
Grateful for all the help I can get / Marc
My girlfriend and I have bought an apartment of 70 m2, and in 2 weeks we will get the keys and immediately start the renovation.
When we were in the apartment, we noticed that the floor sloped in several places, and after doing some research, I found out that at the time this building was constructed, they leveled the concrete slab with sand. Over time, it can settle in some high traffic areas, like thresholds, kitchens, etc.
There is parquet flooring in the living room; the rest of the apartment has linoleum.
We want to lay one type of flooring throughout the apartment, without thresholds (so the rooms flow together).
And I've heard that this only works if you choose laminate flooring, as wood floors move with the seasons.
When I talked to a floor layer, he suggested we choose parquet flooring, now that we are tearing out all the flooring and leveling the sand.
But since we want a dark walnut floor, this will cost us at least 450 SEK/m2.
If we instead choose to lay chipboard and walnut laminate, the total cost will be about 250 SEK/m2.
Now to my questions...
1. What is the process if I choose to level the sand, lay floor chipboard and laminate, what should one stand on during leveling, etc.?
2. How thick should the chipboard be?
3. What do I do at doorways? (I've heard that you should only do one room at a time when leveling the sand).
4. How do I make sure the sand doesn't creep up along the walls?
Then I wonder what you others would choose, laminate or parquet?
How much would choosing parquet increase the value at a sale?
Grateful for all the help I can get / Marc
1. I have personally replaced all the floors and the substrate down to the concrete vault. I had plaster on top of aerated concrete which had started to crumble, resulting in the same effect you are experiencing now. I know that a large area with rental properties had the same type of flooring, the so-called million program. According to what has been said, all the sand has been removed and the floors have been reframed from the beginning to get them right.
Hi!
Recently renovated a living room from 1963 with a wavy parquet floor. The culprit was that the floor was floating, on sand, but the wedges around the walls remained... It was a bit of work to tear up the old floor without damaging/disturbing the sand. What I did was tear up 3-4 rows of the old floor, level the sand with a cross laser, lay out 3mm foam, and install the new floor, tear up a few more rows, install the new one, and so on.
You must splice at all doorways since wood is a living material. There are nice wooden transitions available.
You should definitely invest in a solid wood floor, 14-15mm. This increases the value of your apartment.
At one point, I considered shoveling out all sand, framing up, and adding new insulation, but I discarded that project. The reason there's sand is that it was the best way to dampen footstep noise to the neighbor below at that time.
When was your house built?
What type of flooring do you have in all rooms today?
Do you have neighbors below?
What is the cost of chipboard flooring per sqm?
Recently renovated a living room from 1963 with a wavy parquet floor. The culprit was that the floor was floating, on sand, but the wedges around the walls remained... It was a bit of work to tear up the old floor without damaging/disturbing the sand. What I did was tear up 3-4 rows of the old floor, level the sand with a cross laser, lay out 3mm foam, and install the new floor, tear up a few more rows, install the new one, and so on.
You must splice at all doorways since wood is a living material. There are nice wooden transitions available.
You should definitely invest in a solid wood floor, 14-15mm. This increases the value of your apartment.
At one point, I considered shoveling out all sand, framing up, and adding new insulation, but I discarded that project. The reason there's sand is that it was the best way to dampen footstep noise to the neighbor below at that time.
When was your house built?
What type of flooring do you have in all rooms today?
Do you have neighbors below?
What is the cost of chipboard flooring per sqm?
Thank you for the responses.
I calculated 22mm chipboard flooring at about 60-70 SEK/m2, moisture barrier, soundproofing mat, and a laminate floor from K-rauta for 149 SEK/m2.
In total about 250 SEK/m2: for 75 m2 it amounts to 18750.
For parquet, 450 SEK/m2 is 33350, almost double.
If I choose laminate and ensure the subfloor is done well, the next buyer can either keep the floor or take it up and sell it on Blocket (easily disassembled) and then install new flooring.
I have neighbors below me, so the floor will not be cold.
The house was built in 1958, so it's not a million project.
All rooms excluding the living room have linoleum flooring.
Best regards/ Marc
I calculated 22mm chipboard flooring at about 60-70 SEK/m2, moisture barrier, soundproofing mat, and a laminate floor from K-rauta for 149 SEK/m2.
In total about 250 SEK/m2: for 75 m2 it amounts to 18750.
For parquet, 450 SEK/m2 is 33350, almost double.
If I choose laminate and ensure the subfloor is done well, the next buyer can either keep the floor or take it up and sell it on Blocket (easily disassembled) and then install new flooring.
I have neighbors below me, so the floor will not be cold.
The house was built in 1958, so it's not a million project.
All rooms excluding the living room have linoleum flooring.
Best regards/ Marc
Hello!
I made a mistake with the year in my post (1963 referred to something completely different...) my house was built in '59-'60. I would guess that it's the same setup in your place as in mine, i.e., sand in the living room and a topping on the joist in other rooms to get the floors at the same level in the apartment.
I didn't think about the cold from below but the importance of keeping the sand so you don't disturb the neighbor below, stereo (though there are SD-cushions), party, etc. I don't know what might happen if the neighbor below starts complaining and it turns out that you've removed the sand and not replaced it with a material with the corresponding function. You can't assume that the joist is flat, what I saw of the floor during my renovation was many irregularities (a minor moonscape).
I can't stress enough how much nicer a "real" parquet floor is compared to laminate. Consider how you can afford a "real" floor. Take the renovation in stages, do the walls and ceiling, etc., and then the floor (living room should be done directly).
I assume you've looked a bit at other "floor" threads and I dare almost promise that a majority advocate for "real" parquet.
I made a mistake with the year in my post (1963 referred to something completely different...) my house was built in '59-'60. I would guess that it's the same setup in your place as in mine, i.e., sand in the living room and a topping on the joist in other rooms to get the floors at the same level in the apartment.
I didn't think about the cold from below but the importance of keeping the sand so you don't disturb the neighbor below, stereo (though there are SD-cushions), party, etc. I don't know what might happen if the neighbor below starts complaining and it turns out that you've removed the sand and not replaced it with a material with the corresponding function. You can't assume that the joist is flat, what I saw of the floor during my renovation was many irregularities (a minor moonscape).
I can't stress enough how much nicer a "real" parquet floor is compared to laminate. Consider how you can afford a "real" floor. Take the renovation in stages, do the walls and ceiling, etc., and then the floor (living room should be done directly).
I assume you've looked a bit at other "floor" threads and I dare almost promise that a majority advocate for "real" parquet.
Can you imagine this system and remove all sand?
http://www.swedspan.se/websites/swedspan/sd_page/20/1/index.php
http://www.swedspan.se/websites/swedspan/sd_page/20/1/index.php
I don't understand why one would spend many thousands on this. It's just taking out the junk and setting up a new framework. Shim underneath for support and to get it straight. Done in a day. Then glue chipboard on top. You can lay underfloor heating if you want.byggare henke said:
hokanp. big difference in sound quality if done correctly
I have no sound in my floor. Additionally, I have 120 mm insulation so I don't get any echo.
surely you have sounds in your floor that you don't think about. hokanp
knows more than you since I've worked with it for 15 years.
old and new, renovation, k-marked as well as new constructions.
I can't correct how you feel yourself.
knows more than you since I've worked with it for 15 years.
old and new, renovation, k-marked as well as new constructions.
I can't correct how you feel yourself.
And I have information from someone who built these floors in new houses in the 60s and 70s, with a total of about 40 years of experience. There are some tricks one can use. And you don't know what experience I have. I might be a master builder...
Here it seems there's a mix-up between thermal insulation and soundproofing. Sound is dampened by forcing it to pass through materials with high density, heavy materials like sand, gypsum, flooring chipboard, etc.hokanp said:
There are really only two or three good ways to create a sand floor:
1. Rearrange it and continue to use sand, but redo it and level/plane the sand again so it is good, and lay chipboard on top. A classic floating floor.
2. Remove the sand and pour a suitable material on the floor, e.g., floor leveling compound if it's a thin layer of sand, or regular concrete if it's a lot. The floor is leveled in the mix or with leveling compound on top and the new floor is placed directly on the concrete with plastic/foam between the floor and concrete.
3. Then there are several different systems that rely on spacers under a suspended floor set on "feet" with a cavity beneath. In these systems, there are various step soundproofing mats or similar that work.
Why not just put up joists then? Well, that's usually done on the ground floor or in a house if you don't need to pay much attention to whether the neighbor below might be disturbed by footstep noise. Or if you own the whole house and renovate all the apartments so it's just accepted that noise travels between floors. Renovating an apartment in the middle of a building and compromising on soundproofing might lead the building's association to condemn the renovation if complaints arise afterwards. It should also be mentioned that it's a very small apartment, so it will probably be cheapest to do it right anyway.
I have reinforced my intermediate floor and sit under it all day as my office is in the basement. I can guarantee that it is soundless. I used floor chipboard on the battens but I wrote that before. I also wrote this: And I have information from someone who built these floors in the 60s and 70s in new houses, with a total of about 40 years of experience. There are some tricks that can be used. Insulation is also a sound-dampening measure.
hokanp You can be a construction manager without even being at my level.
If we're going to talk about tips of the year, I'm up there too
Oh my god. I thought life was a competition about who had the most stuff, not about who knew the most.
If we're going to talk about tips of the year, I'm up there too
Oh my god. I thought life was a competition about who had the most stuff, not about who knew the most.