ACME wrote:
Framing and insulating would be a disaster.
If you have so many moisture problems in the wall that wallpaper on the inside molds, then not even "bare" plaster will suffice, because the dust that settles on the wall will mold. I have seen this phenomenon.
Framing and insulating would be a disaster.
The first thing that usually starts to mold in a wall construction is the back of the drywall and the wallpaper behind the baseboard.
It is smarter to find a solution with good ventilation, materials that are more resistant to moisture, and above all - remedy incoming moisture from outside through effective drainage.
But it feels like the thread has gone off track a bit...this applies to ground moisture problems, which do not have to be synonymous with basements.
But it feels like the thread has gone off track a bit...this applies to ground moisture problems, which do not have to be synonymous with basements.
Petra seems satisfied with the answers, but I have one more question...poiu said:
ACME says that framing + insulating would be a disaster. So if I was planning to put interior walls against the masonry foundation in my externally drained but uninsulated basement, it wouldn't be good to put: air gap-steel studs-insulation-drywall, right? So a wall with drywall only on the inside (facing the room) and mineral wool boards in the studs. Install mechanical ventilation with fans in 3-4 places to circulate the air in the air gap.No..poiu says that. I meant that a wallpaper will not allow any moisture migration and will start to mold if exposed to moisture.lajo01 said:
I believe in your construction with a mechanically ventilated space behind the wall, especially when the house is drained.
ACME since when did paper become diffusion tight?
What you should not use if you can expect moisture migration inward to a "reasonable" extent is tighter plastic-coated wallpapers.
If you have such major moisture problems that organic materials mold, the moisture problems must be addressed.
If you have major moisture problems, you should not further cool down the wall by insulating it from the inside.
What's the point of insulating the wall if you're going to mechanically ventilate it behind the insulation? Or are you going to ventilate with cold outdoor air?
Platon has a system for basement interior design if I remember correctly (including walls), check out their website.
What you should not use if you can expect moisture migration inward to a "reasonable" extent is tighter plastic-coated wallpapers.
If you have such major moisture problems that organic materials mold, the moisture problems must be addressed.
If you have major moisture problems, you should not further cool down the wall by insulating it from the inside.
What's the point of insulating the wall if you're going to mechanically ventilate it behind the insulation? Or are you going to ventilate with cold outdoor air?
Platon has a system for basement interior design if I remember correctly (including walls), check out their website.
It's not, and that's something I've never claimed. It was about a construction that would be built in a potentially damp environment, and your recommendation was; "Then use a paper wallpaper so that the moisture can migrate out if needed."poiu said:
Sounds really smart. Go for it!
Moisture problems don't need to be gigantic to get a wallpaper/plasterboard to start molding. I've seen examples of that during my 15 years of work with "regular" and external moisture damage.
Assessing whether a specific wall should/can/ought to be insulated from the inside is hardly something one can determine on a forum.
Maybe he wants to insulate to minimize can noise and fan noise..?
ACME o poiu,
Apologies for the misquotation! The insulation of my basement walls is primarily for acoustic reasons since the room will become a home theater, so I want to "cover" the concrete with more gypsum/insulation as a "base dampening" for the acoustics. Particleboard would be better but not in the basement...
If I then get a slightly warmer climate in the room, it's a bonus, but the idea is to ventilate the air gap so that the outer wall doesn't become significantly colder than it would have been without the inner wall.
From a construction standpoint, do you see any problems with only having gypsum on one side of the wall? It's a bit difficult to screw gypsum on the backside... Will the insulation stay in the beams without having two gypsum boards? I've never worked with steel beams before.
Apologies for the misquotation! The insulation of my basement walls is primarily for acoustic reasons since the room will become a home theater, so I want to "cover" the concrete with more gypsum/insulation as a "base dampening" for the acoustics. Particleboard would be better but not in the basement...
If I then get a slightly warmer climate in the room, it's a bonus, but the idea is to ventilate the air gap so that the outer wall doesn't become significantly colder than it would have been without the inner wall.
From a construction standpoint, do you see any problems with only having gypsum on one side of the wall? It's a bit difficult to screw gypsum on the backside... Will the insulation stay in the beams without having two gypsum boards? I've never worked with steel beams before.
You can thread behind the insulation with a thin steel wire so that the insulation gets support from behind. Fasten a couple of screws into the back of the frame before you mount it, so you have something to wrap the wire around.
With a metal frame and single gypsum board, it will be a pretty flimsy wall, so I would place metal angles between the wall and the frames to stiffen the construction.
With a metal frame and single gypsum board, it will be a pretty flimsy wall, so I would place metal angles between the wall and the frames to stiffen the construction.
A crazy idea, to show my own ignorance, could you place drywall "inside" the steel studs against the backside and thus have two sides of drywall? It gets a bit messy to cut down the width of the drywall to fit but....
100 mm stud - 13 mm drywall leaves plenty of room for insulation.
100 mm stud - 13 mm drywall leaves plenty of room for insulation.
Well, ACME, I was a bit unclear, but I was referring to the walls above ground in the basement level. A construction with low risk of moisture if done correctly. You can still have problems there, no doubt about it. There is a high risk of having a slight increase in moisture, and hopefully, you can manage with a paper wallpaper. But a moisture technical investigation should be conducted.
Then I wonder how the first part is to be interpreted:
Regarding walls in basements below ground, the conditions are similar to those for the ground slab. I don't think it's appropriate to frame out and insulate.
I recommend again the above-mentioned system that I believe Platon had. Then there’s no problem keeping the insulation away from the wall while creating an air gap. Note that there will be no moisture barrier in the usual sense if you ventilate the gap.
Then I wonder how the first part is to be interpreted:
Furnishing basements that are not built to be furnished is asking for trouble.
Regarding walls in basements below ground, the conditions are similar to those for the ground slab. I don't think it's appropriate to frame out and insulate.
I recommend again the above-mentioned system that I believe Platon had. Then there’s no problem keeping the insulation away from the wall while creating an air gap. Note that there will be no moisture barrier in the usual sense if you ventilate the gap.
Hi lajo01, I forgot to write that you seem to have considered what you are doing.
If it's platon that has the system, but in principle it's basically the same, you attach a platonmatta to the wall and arrange ventilation slots according to a system. Since the platonmatta is ventilated behind with room air, moisture will be able to migrate both in and out of the wall and be transported with the air. The difference is likely to be (note, I have not reviewed any evaluations of the system) small compared to if the wall was directly facing the room. The task of the platonmatta is to create a gap, not to be a vapor barrier. Vapor barriers against basement walls are very questionable.
I apologize for expressing myself unclearly, it is not supposed to be a vapor barrier at all, but it can be perceived as such.
If it's platon that has the system, but in principle it's basically the same, you attach a platonmatta to the wall and arrange ventilation slots according to a system. Since the platonmatta is ventilated behind with room air, moisture will be able to migrate both in and out of the wall and be transported with the air. The difference is likely to be (note, I have not reviewed any evaluations of the system) small compared to if the wall was directly facing the room. The task of the platonmatta is to create a gap, not to be a vapor barrier. Vapor barriers against basement walls are very questionable.
I apologize for expressing myself unclearly, it is not supposed to be a vapor barrier at all, but it can be perceived as such.