Help, those of you who know building technology and liability insurance

[BirgitS]

It is common.

 

[justusandersson]

The year of construction is an important detail for assessing what information may be available.

 

[MoveMe]

The year of construction is an important detail for assessing what information may be available.

1982

 

[justusandersson]

With a relatively newly built house, there should be plenty of drawings available. Plans and a section are desirable. The location of the bathrooms must be clear. Preferably photos from the crawl space showing the load-bearing parts.

 

[MoveMe]

With such a relatively newly built house, there should be plenty of drawings. Plans and a section are desirable. The locations of the bathrooms must be shown. Preferably photos from the crawl space of the supporting parts.

 

[MoveMe]

With a relatively newly built house, there should be plenty of drawings. Plans and a section are desirable. The location of the bathrooms must be evident. Preferably photos from the crawl space of the load-bearing parts.

The large bathroom is in the same area as on the drawing, the small toilet has been enlarged to a walk-in closet with a shower. Outside, it is clearly noticeable that the floor is sinking and in the left corner of the bathroom, the ceiling and tiles have separated by a few mm.

 

[justusandersson]

Unfortunately, the basic drawing does not specify in detail how the ground floor in the residential section is constructed. It can be noted that the distances between the outer walls and the central wall in the foundation are approximately 4.6 meters, which is far too large for standard construction lumber based on today's deflection criteria. If it does not feel generally shaky when you jump in the middle of the floors, then glulam has been used or some other form of reinforcement has been done. It is likely that the bathroom builders have made interventions when they have altered the routing of drains, etc., but it's difficult to say how this has affected the joists.

 

[MoveMe]

Unfortunately, the basic blueprint does not detail how the ground floor structure in the residential section is constructed. It can be noted that the distances between the outer walls and the central wall in the foundation are about 4.6 meters, which is far too large for regular construction timber by today's flex criteria. If it doesn't generally feel wobbly when you jump in the middle of the floors, then glulam or some other form of reinforcement has been used. It is likely that the bathroom builders made modifications when they changed the routing of drains, etc., but it's hard to say how it has affected the floor structure.

What kind of reinforcement might have been used? If no reinforcement has been done, isn't it approved then? How come it was approved in the 1980s? Shouldn't the surveyor have been obliged to tell us that the distance isn't approved today and the house might flex?

I must thank you for all the answers I've received so far! Thanks! It's so scary that our house is unsteady.

 

[niblom]

Craftsmen are obliged to think one step ahead. They are professionals at building bathrooms, etc., and should give recommendations to the customer if there are any doubts.

If there were vinyl floors before and now there will be tiles, it should, for example, be reinforced with 30cc.

It looks like 60cc in the picture.

The ceiling looks like they just screwed new joists for the ceiling without taking down the old ceiling, it's entirely possible they've cut something important to make room for spotlights.

My advice would be to bring in an inspector together with the builders, where they can explain in detail what they have done. But it is difficult to know without tearing down. Is it possible to drill a small hole, for example, under a molding in an adjacent room and insert a camera (a tiny one on a flexible tube)?

/N

 

[MoveMe]

Craftsmen are obliged to think one step ahead. They are professionals at building bathrooms etc. and should provide recommendations to the customer if there are any uncertainties.

If there were previously plastic mats and now there is to be tile, for example, it should be reinforced with 30cc to strengthen it.

It looks like 60cc in the picture.

The ceiling looks like they've just screwed up new joists for the ceiling without taking down the old ceiling, it's entirely possible they cut something important to make room for the spots.

My advice would be to bring out an inspector with the builders where they have to explain in detail what they've done. But it's hard to know without tearing it down. Is it possible to drill a small hole, for example under some trim in an adjacent room and get in a camera (a small thing on a bendable tube)?

/N

It's a crawl space, can the subfloor be removed and accessed from below? My husband remembers that they probably cut on a beam that was there and reinforced around it. Unfortunately, we didn't take a picture of it. Maybe that's what's causing issues... But now worried that since our house also seems to have weaknesses, no one will want to take responsibility. Does anyone know if this can be considered a hidden defect?

 

[justusandersson]

Today's requirements for limited deflection did not exist in 1982, but different techniques were still used to limit deflection in floors, such as cross-bracing. If you do not personally feel that the floors are bouncy in all rooms, that is important information. Opening the floors from underneath is certainly a possible approach. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to find inspectors with sufficient expertise for this type of problem.

 

[MoveMe]

Today's requirements for limited deflection didn't exist in 1982, but various techniques were still used to limit deflection in floor structures, such as cross-bracing. If you haven't personally noticed that the floors sway in all the rooms, that's important information. Opening the floor structures from below is definitely a possible approach. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to find inspectors with sufficient expertise for this type of problem.

I thought it would be hard to find an inspector for that. We didn't notice any creaking, swaying, or bouncing when we bought the house, and the inspection report didn't mention it either even though he had been down in the crawl space. It has also been very stable and quiet during wind and storms, so we initially thought the house was well-built until now; now it creaks in the hallway outside the bathrooms. Our seller did purchase a latent defects insurance, if we go to the realtor and say that we might have a latent defect, do you think the insurance company will send out a qualified inspector?

 

[justusandersson]

I find it hard to believe that it is a hidden defect. The key question is: what have the bathroom contractors done that has so significantly weakened the joists? If it's possible to obtain a technical description from the Building Committee, it might provide some guidance.

 

[MoveMe]

Hard to determine the cause of the problem, but for one thing, the contractors might have cut load-bearing beams for installations, and the original joists might be too weak to support leveling compound and tiles, which results in settling/flexing.
Normally, tighter joists are required in bathrooms, cc 300 mm or cc 600 mm with at least 45x220 joists for tiles.

How do you know if the joists are too weak? My husband found this picture now. I know that they sawed into that beam in the middle to make room for the drain. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of that.

 

[MoveMe]

I find it hard to believe that it is a hidden fault. The key question is: what have the bathroom contractors done that has worsened the floor structure so significantly? If it's possible to obtain a technical description from the Building Committee, it might provide some guidance.

The Building Committee had no further drawings. Contacted a building consultant, who thought that my home insurance should send out an inspection company to first eliminate the possibility of water damage; then he could come out and have a look, but during the initial conversation he thought it sounded like two different problems in the two bathrooms, as he said the load-bearing wall is in the middle, so the small bathroom can't affect the large one, so the large bathroom must have another issue. In the small bathroom, we know that something was cut that wasn't supposed to be, so it's sagging; in the large bathroom, it looks more like the tiles have risen...and after I spoke with him, I placed a ball outside the large bathroom and it actually doesn't roll away. So the floor is still okay there for now. But if the beam is too weak in the house, should it be reinforced under the large bathroom as well to eliminate future problems?