Hello, I couldn't find a clear place to post my question, so I hope I posted in the right place(?)
(The house was built in '99 by JM)
In our living room, the ceiling is sagging in a few places. Above the living room ceiling is the upper floor's floor. The ceiling is a regular gypsum ceiling.
It needs to be fixed because I want to be sure that the projector and other expensive items won't fall down... (it was sagging before the projector was installed)
A bit worried about how this could happen, so I made a hole with the hole saw, and as I suspected, the beams have come loose in a few places (they are nailed to the cross beams, which in this case are the floor beams for the upper floor).
It looks like it has only come loose in one place, and the weight has caused it to come loose along the same row along the beam, so to speak, meaning it's just one beam length that has come loose in a few places (maybe three beams).
Lucky that there's no moisture at least...
Now to my question. I've figured out a few options but still want to hear what you think I should do to fix it as quickly and smoothly as possible (with minimal intervention).
I want to screw because I think it should be the most durable; am I wrong?
Tearing up the floor on the upper floor is not on the table, and perhaps neither is tearing down the ceiling in the living room.
To lift the ceiling back up to be able to screw it, I was thinking of bringing in a jack and a wide and long beam to spread the pressure over as large an area as possible.
Option 1. My first idea was to remove a bit of the gypsum at the points where the beam is attached to the joist with the hole saw and maybe screw it instead of nailing. Then glue/screw the gypsum piece back again.
Option 2. Screw through the gypsum and thus not make holes to access the beam. This feels like a slightly worse option since the gypsum gets a lot of pressure on a small point, and also, you would see the ugly screw heads.
How would you do it?
-Johan
(The house was built in '99 by JM)
In our living room, the ceiling is sagging in a few places. Above the living room ceiling is the upper floor's floor. The ceiling is a regular gypsum ceiling.
It needs to be fixed because I want to be sure that the projector and other expensive items won't fall down... (it was sagging before the projector was installed)
A bit worried about how this could happen, so I made a hole with the hole saw, and as I suspected, the beams have come loose in a few places (they are nailed to the cross beams, which in this case are the floor beams for the upper floor).
It looks like it has only come loose in one place, and the weight has caused it to come loose along the same row along the beam, so to speak, meaning it's just one beam length that has come loose in a few places (maybe three beams).
Lucky that there's no moisture at least...
Now to my question. I've figured out a few options but still want to hear what you think I should do to fix it as quickly and smoothly as possible (with minimal intervention).
I want to screw because I think it should be the most durable; am I wrong?
Tearing up the floor on the upper floor is not on the table, and perhaps neither is tearing down the ceiling in the living room.
To lift the ceiling back up to be able to screw it, I was thinking of bringing in a jack and a wide and long beam to spread the pressure over as large an area as possible.
Option 1. My first idea was to remove a bit of the gypsum at the points where the beam is attached to the joist with the hole saw and maybe screw it instead of nailing. Then glue/screw the gypsum piece back again.
Option 2. Screw through the gypsum and thus not make holes to access the beam. This feels like a slightly worse option since the gypsum gets a lot of pressure on a small point, and also, you would see the ugly screw heads.
How would you do it?
-Johan
If we're talking about option 1 & 2, then definitely option 1. This will likely mean you'll have to repaint the entire ceiling, because if you only paint where you've repaired, it will look whiter than the rest of the ceiling (I should add that painting is my least favorite part of renovation).
The house is "only" 7 years old. Shouldn't there be a warranty from the house manufacturer against such a defect (or did you build it yourself)? The ceiling should never come loose. I would contact the contractor and get it fixed that way.
The house is "only" 7 years old. Shouldn't there be a warranty from the house manufacturer against such a defect (or did you build it yourself)? The ceiling should never come loose. I would contact the contractor and get it fixed that way.
If the glesen has come loose from the studs, it might be covered under the building insurance if the house is only 7 years old. It should normally be nailed to withstand normal load and a bit more.
What you can do is find out where the glesen is attached to the studs (probably cc 30 in cc 60 stud) and as you described, lift the entire plaster ceiling and screw it back through the plaster and glesen into the stud. The glesen is probably 28 mm, so choose screws that are the plaster + 28 mm + 10-15 mm more so that it grips into the stud.
What you can do is find out where the glesen is attached to the studs (probably cc 30 in cc 60 stud) and as you described, lift the entire plaster ceiling and screw it back through the plaster and glesen into the stud. The glesen is probably 28 mm, so choose screws that are the plaster + 28 mm + 10-15 mm more so that it grips into the stud.
Option 1. why as large as a hole saw?
I would have drilled/countersunk the plasterboard with a flat drill bit slightly larger than the screw head. Used a screw with a flat head (like a mounting screw) so that the screw could really pull the sparse panel into place. Then I would have filled the small hole, which might be about a centimeter in diameter.
I would have drilled/countersunk the plasterboard with a flat drill bit slightly larger than the screw head. Used a screw with a flat head (like a mounting screw) so that the screw could really pull the sparse panel into place. Then I would have filled the small hole, which might be about a centimeter in diameter.
Well, we (or rather real builders) have built a dormer on the upper floor and a friend insulated the floor with ecofiber which was blown in. Both are passing the blame and I honestly don't feel like arguing with them since it seems fairly easy to fix it myself, even if it takes time, etc.
Ok, now I'm torn. One vote for option 2 and one for option 1.
Anyway, keep sharing your ideas and opinions. I'll probably try to do something about it this weekend.
Thanks for the responses so far
-Johan
Ok, now I'm torn. One vote for option 2 and one for option 1.
Anyway, keep sharing your ideas and opinions. I'll probably try to do something about it this weekend.
Thanks for the responses so far
-Johan
No.. I also vote for option 1, but I wouldn't have used a hole saw for electrical boxes.johanr said:yes, we (or rather real builders) have built a dormer on the upper floor and a friend insulated the floor with ecofiber that was blown in. Both are passing the blame, and honestly, I don't have the energy to argue with them since it seems quite easy to fix myself even if it takes time, etc.
Ok, now I'm torn. One vote for option 2 and one for option 1.
Anyway, keep sharing your ideas and opinions. I'll probably try to do something this weekend.
thanks for the responses so far
-johan
I would have looked for the intersection between the stud and slat panel, taken a regular wood drill (that drills flat, not a metal drill that drills angularly). Then I would have drilled away the gypsum with a screw head diameter + a few mm. Pulled "the stuff" there and then evenly patched and dabbed on some paint with a sponge or something. If it looked bad, I would repaint... whenever there's time.
ah, yes of course. why make a big hole when a small one will do. just need to find the right spot :-/
edit. repainting the ceiling is no problem. it needs to be done anyway. I also have plans for an acoustic ceiling (like ecophon) that's why I want to make sure it's installed properly.
-Johan
edit. repainting the ceiling is no problem. it needs to be done anyway. I also have plans for an acoustic ceiling (like ecophon) that's why I want to make sure it's installed properly.
-Johan
A refined version of alternativ1, it sounds like, in other words. Just hope they have kept the cc measurements so one can find the right fit.
How coarse of a mounting screw can I use? I want a "wide" thread relative to the screw body to grip as much as possible in the beam.
I also plan to pre-drill to avoid splitting the beams or the timber.
edit. Is there a place where you can easily see which screws can hold what, or rather how much a screw can handle?
-johan
How coarse of a mounting screw can I use? I want a "wide" thread relative to the screw body to grip as much as possible in the beam.
I also plan to pre-drill to avoid splitting the beams or the timber.
edit. Is there a place where you can easily see which screws can hold what, or rather how much a screw can handle?
-johan
You don't need coarse screws. 4-6 mm should suffice. However, they should probably be relatively long if the sparse panel has sunk a bit so you can grip the beam before it starts pulling up the sparse panel.
Keep an eye on the nails for the sparse panel. They will likely want to protrude through the plaster when you pull up the panel. If you're not careful, you might crack the plaster.
Keep an eye on the nails for the sparse panel. They will likely want to protrude through the plaster when you pull up the panel. If you're not careful, you might crack the plaster.
Regarding finding the stud.
If you're having trouble finding the stud and can access the attic, I would either measure from a ceiling box or drill a 2-3 mm hole next to the stud from the attic. That way, you'll know exactly where the studs are, and you'll be spackling and painting anyway ;-).
Someone else might have a better suggestion, but that's what I can think of right off the bat.
If you're having trouble finding the stud and can access the attic, I would either measure from a ceiling box or drill a 2-3 mm hole next to the stud from the attic. That way, you'll know exactly where the studs are, and you'll be spackling and painting anyway ;-).
Someone else might have a better suggestion, but that's what I can think of right off the bat.
Yes, I thought about that after my last post. Hmm, what should one actually do about them? hammering them in simultaneously isn't possible, they're under the plasterboard. Maybe try drilling where they are expected to come out?Linnex said:
regarding attic
Above is the floor of the dormer. And I'd rather not break that up
Hmm... now it feels like I'm venturing into unknown territory and need to experiment....johanr said:Yes, came to think about it after my previous post. Hmm, what should one actually do with them? Hammering them in at the same time won't work, they're under the plasterboard. Maybe try drilling where they're supposed to come out?
regarding the attic
Above is the dormer floor. And I would preferably not break it up
I would probably start by carefully screwing. Placing against a wood block, give a few hammer taps, and then carefully screw again.
If that doesn't work, maybe screw through the wood block and use it as a washer to pull up the spaced panel with nails.
If that doesn't work, then maybe the jack and wood block....
Definitely small holes and then screws with large heads or even better screws plus washers. For the washers, you could use car body washers which have a large surface area but relatively small holes. Then I want significantly longer screws. For example, 70 mm so that you get a good grip in the studs.
I sent my partner and the little one out and got started with the work. It didn't take more than an hour
I brought in the jack and carefully lifted the roof while tapping on the places where the studs are attached to the beams with a wide plank (old 45x45 stud in between). No signs of any nails coming out through the plasterboard, though I doubt you would have seen anything before it was too late :-/
Then I made holes where I presumed the beams were and pre-drilled, then screwed with long screws I had in stock with a washer in between. Holes were also made in the plasterboard to fit the dimension of the washer. Seems to have done the trick because the ceiling is straight again, you can really see the difference and it feels like I trust it a bit more now. Thanks to everyone who shared their opinions for your help!
Just one more question. What is the "standard" measurement for the distance between floor joists? Isn't it usually 120cc? It didn't feel like all the screws were gripping something on the other side... I might have measured wrong, or they might not be exactly 120cc, or I felt wrong :-/ . Doesn't take much for you to miss when measuring. Hmm...
-JR
I brought in the jack and carefully lifted the roof while tapping on the places where the studs are attached to the beams with a wide plank (old 45x45 stud in between). No signs of any nails coming out through the plasterboard, though I doubt you would have seen anything before it was too late :-/
Then I made holes where I presumed the beams were and pre-drilled, then screwed with long screws I had in stock with a washer in between. Holes were also made in the plasterboard to fit the dimension of the washer. Seems to have done the trick because the ceiling is straight again, you can really see the difference and it feels like I trust it a bit more now. Thanks to everyone who shared their opinions for your help!
Just one more question. What is the "standard" measurement for the distance between floor joists? Isn't it usually 120cc? It didn't feel like all the screws were gripping something on the other side... I might have measured wrong, or they might not be exactly 120cc, or I felt wrong :-/ . Doesn't take much for you to miss when measuring. Hmm...
-JR