Someone who can do some calculations... Scenario: currently there's a sloped roof, small angle sheet metal. He wants regular trusses (Swedish). As it is now, he has along the room a beam at 4.75, a wooden beam, not so heavily dimensioned, it flexes.... It rests on wooden pillars anchored in cast foundations (The 3 dots you see on the line... the distances between the foundations are about 4.75, and they are located 3.57 in from the center exterior wall.... So the remaining distance to the other exterior wall will be about 2.85 center... The exterior walls are made of cement stone which he wants to keep and build up to the right level where needed...
Anyway... Dimensions... We talked about HEA beams, he wants at least 2 in a stronger dimension so he can use hoists on them.... For the posts, I think a regular square beam, with a welded plate drilled and chemically anchored into the foundations, then the top of the post, a welded plate and holes for the HEA beams which are spliced at each pillar, these bolted with type dia12 bolts, washers, and nuts.... 2 at each HEABEAN end... On top of the Hea we intend to weld on "ears" for the tie beams of the trusses which must be spliced over the Hea.
I have installed several such constructions before, but I’m not very good at calculating dimensions when it comes to roofs and snow loads. Loads, in other words....
The exterior roof is going to consist of 45X70 as sparse for the metal sheet roof....
He, of course, wants it insulated and then the sparse nailed directly to the tie beams c/c 30..... He would also like a loft, but I think it is difficult to achieve with the span of the trusses....
Grateful for help with calculations for both the beam and the trusses.....
Note the sketch is made in PAINT..
Addition: At the end of the HEA beams, there should be a pillar, plus the Hea should rest on the masonry exterior wall.
Anyway... Dimensions... We talked about HEA beams, he wants at least 2 in a stronger dimension so he can use hoists on them.... For the posts, I think a regular square beam, with a welded plate drilled and chemically anchored into the foundations, then the top of the post, a welded plate and holes for the HEA beams which are spliced at each pillar, these bolted with type dia12 bolts, washers, and nuts.... 2 at each HEABEAN end... On top of the Hea we intend to weld on "ears" for the tie beams of the trusses which must be spliced over the Hea.
I have installed several such constructions before, but I’m not very good at calculating dimensions when it comes to roofs and snow loads. Loads, in other words....
The exterior roof is going to consist of 45X70 as sparse for the metal sheet roof....
He, of course, wants it insulated and then the sparse nailed directly to the tie beams c/c 30..... He would also like a loft, but I think it is difficult to achieve with the span of the trusses....
Grateful for help with calculations for both the beam and the trusses.....
Note the sketch is made in PAINT..
Addition: At the end of the HEA beams, there should be a pillar, plus the Hea should rest on the masonry exterior wall.
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I wanted to hear what it is you need help with and what exactly are the dimensions of everything, as I find it a bit ambiguous on your drawing.
Are you planning to set up two HEAs crosswise or lengthwise? I interpret your drawing as being 20m long and 4.75m wide, or am I missing something?
Then there's the question of whether you're going to make your own roof trusses to place on top of the steel beams, or buy ready-made ones, or use the steel beams as roof beams and lay the roof on top of that?
But as I interpret it, it's a garage that's 20m long and 4.75m wide and currently has a sloped roof that hasn’t held up, and he wants to change it to a gable roof and be able to use a loft as well. On top of that, he wants to be able to hang hoists and lift things in the ceiling but nothing about what he wants to hang there, whether it's something light or hanging pigs or oxen for hanging maturation, or be able to lift out a car engine, or even lift a whole car there?
Normally, a flat roof with 45x220 C24 timber with cc60 holds if it is under 540cm, and if it's a metal roof and tilted, it should hold well, especially down there. But now he probably wants to hang something heavy, I assume, and then the question is whether he wants to do it when there’s 2m of snow on the roof or when there's not so much snow on the roof, or if he intends to build a frame of steel to place the roof on. In that case, I think he should put an HEA on the sides and one on the ridge, and brace the ridge with supports from the sides at regular intervals and lay the roof between them, then lay the floor on HEA and take a smaller profile, either square or HEA, and put it crosswise with wheels on it and maybe also a sled on it so it's movable throughout the garage in all directions like a real gantry crane. If it's only 4.5m between supports, it doesn't need to be that big to handle quite a lot of load, and then it doesn't matter how it looks on the roof since the roof force goes down on the supports and is distributed down into the slab.
The only problem with this is that it involves some steel, and lifting the one that should lie on the ridge becomes a bit difficult if it’s heavy and long. Then I think that HEA 200 would be more than sufficient, as it would be possible to make it hold with wooden beams, but then the supports would be much closer together. However, I wasn't really sure if I understood you correctly here now.
Are you planning to set up two HEAs crosswise or lengthwise? I interpret your drawing as being 20m long and 4.75m wide, or am I missing something?
Then there's the question of whether you're going to make your own roof trusses to place on top of the steel beams, or buy ready-made ones, or use the steel beams as roof beams and lay the roof on top of that?
But as I interpret it, it's a garage that's 20m long and 4.75m wide and currently has a sloped roof that hasn’t held up, and he wants to change it to a gable roof and be able to use a loft as well. On top of that, he wants to be able to hang hoists and lift things in the ceiling but nothing about what he wants to hang there, whether it's something light or hanging pigs or oxen for hanging maturation, or be able to lift out a car engine, or even lift a whole car there?
Normally, a flat roof with 45x220 C24 timber with cc60 holds if it is under 540cm, and if it's a metal roof and tilted, it should hold well, especially down there. But now he probably wants to hang something heavy, I assume, and then the question is whether he wants to do it when there’s 2m of snow on the roof or when there's not so much snow on the roof, or if he intends to build a frame of steel to place the roof on. In that case, I think he should put an HEA on the sides and one on the ridge, and brace the ridge with supports from the sides at regular intervals and lay the roof between them, then lay the floor on HEA and take a smaller profile, either square or HEA, and put it crosswise with wheels on it and maybe also a sled on it so it's movable throughout the garage in all directions like a real gantry crane. If it's only 4.5m between supports, it doesn't need to be that big to handle quite a lot of load, and then it doesn't matter how it looks on the roof since the roof force goes down on the supports and is distributed down into the slab.
The only problem with this is that it involves some steel, and lifting the one that should lie on the ridge becomes a bit difficult if it’s heavy and long. Then I think that HEA 200 would be more than sufficient, as it would be possible to make it hold with wooden beams, but then the supports would be much closer together. However, I wasn't really sure if I understood you correctly here now.
Hello. No, I probably expressed myself wrong.
The width is 3.57 + 2.85.
4.75 is the distance between each plinth but there are 4 plinths and not 3.
He is not going to have any direct industry, but should be able to unload heavy stuff from a trailer, engines, etc.
I see it as a bit of an overreach to build up the beam in the ridge.
The width is 3.57 + 2.85.
4.75 is the distance between each plinth but there are 4 plinths and not 3.
He is not going to have any direct industry, but should be able to unload heavy stuff from a trailer, engines, etc.
I see it as a bit of an overreach to build up the beam in the ridge.
It is cheaper to buy sturdy steel beams than to have an engineer calculate
I'm using a HEA240 over a span of 5m in the middle of a floor structure (just over 30sqm). It's overkill, but it only cost me 2,000:- and it fit in the structure.
(Now I'll probably get an earful from the freemasons...)
I'm using a HEA240 over a span of 5m in the middle of a floor structure (just over 30sqm). It's overkill, but it only cost me 2,000:- and it fit in the structure.
(Now I'll probably get an earful from the freemasons...)
Hey, I was considering HEA240 specifically where he wants the taljan.... But otherwise, I'm wondering if HEA 200 would work...
Then the trusses. Is 45X165 enough for the ridge beam and purlin.... Then 120 for the posts? He's also planning to use nail plates and anchor nails....b
Then the trusses. Is 45X165 enough for the ridge beam and purlin.... Then 120 for the posts? He's also planning to use nail plates and anchor nails....b
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· Västerbottens län
· 18 058 posts
I sometimes tend to question things and now it feels like that, skip solar brackets and iron beams, build regular trusses and get an engine hoist/workshop crane (Biltema). Iron beam and pulley just go up and down. But a V-crane becomes more 3-dimensional and you avoid 4 posts in the garage. The V-crane can also be used on the driveway.
Or have I missed something?
Protte
Or have I missed something?
Protte
Well, the thing is that he wants to build it roughly like it is today, but have a real roof instead. The use of hoists is that there's a potential with such a construction.
Isn't the span very long for a spliced collar beam? I mean, it would be brilliant to be able to use the beams for multiple purposes.
He's going to have a bunch of rooms in the garage too. Could it then be smarter to build the interior walls under the splices instead? And just have beams where he wants to work with hoists?
Isn't the span very long for a spliced collar beam? I mean, it would be brilliant to be able to use the beams for multiple purposes.
He's going to have a bunch of rooms in the garage too. Could it then be smarter to build the interior walls under the splices instead? And just have beams where he wants to work with hoists?
Now I think I've interpreted you correctly, and then I would probably put up a longitudinal beam on the middle post/wall and then one above both walls and one at the ridge and support them with braces from the outer wall to the ridge. This way, they take the force so there's no downward deflection there, which would lead to pushing out the walls if you don't put beams straight across to form a triangle. This creates a tensile force in the beams, which you then lay the floor on, and everything depends a bit on what you're going to do and where you set the limits for flex. But then I would probably, with a guess, go with HEA200 at the ridge and along the walls, and then maybe HEA140 or a KKR/VKR140 and place it with C/C3000mm or something similar so it becomes supportive in all directions and lay it only on the middle wall's beam.
And then place wooden studs across them to lay the floor and ceiling between, but that would result in a skew bending which I don't have the energy to calculate right now either. However, this would likely be quite rigid, and if you want to slim it down, it's possible to calculate that once you've decided how you want it to look, and if you want to use HEA or IPE or VKR. Personally, I think it looks better with VKR, but if you're going to install something that needs to run in a track, you get that with an IPE/HEA, or you can place a U profile on a VKR where you want it.
Calculating snow load isn't too difficult if you just know how you want it to look and what roof pitch and material you're going to have, as a metal roof with a 30-45 degree pitch won't retain much snow, while a 30-degree tile roof retains much more snow and weighs more from the start too, and whether it should be symmetrical or asymmetrical.
And then place wooden studs across them to lay the floor and ceiling between, but that would result in a skew bending which I don't have the energy to calculate right now either. However, this would likely be quite rigid, and if you want to slim it down, it's possible to calculate that once you've decided how you want it to look, and if you want to use HEA or IPE or VKR. Personally, I think it looks better with VKR, but if you're going to install something that needs to run in a track, you get that with an IPE/HEA, or you can place a U profile on a VKR where you want it.
Calculating snow load isn't too difficult if you just know how you want it to look and what roof pitch and material you're going to have, as a metal roof with a 30-45 degree pitch won't retain much snow, while a 30-degree tile roof retains much more snow and weighs more from the start too, and whether it should be symmetrical or asymmetrical.
miry: Excuse me a bit now.... I'm terribly bad at explaining and keeping sentences together so people understand... But you're exactly the same..
No offense, but can you sketch it out so I can see more written down what you mean..... As I understand it, it will be the worst bunker as you describe it, and sure, Steel is a damn cheap and good material in relation to the price, but it sounds a bit over the top actually...
Feel free to sketch it out....
No offense, but can you sketch it out so I can see more written down what you mean..... As I understand it, it will be the worst bunker as you describe it, and sure, Steel is a damn cheap and good material in relation to the price, but it sounds a bit over the top actually...
Feel free to sketch it out....
and then you haven't really answered what he wants to be able to ventilate in the boards that he wants, as it will be easy to consider if there are slightly heavier things
I was thinking a little last night while I was working... Could it possibly work to have a square beam in the ridge, weld ears onto it, and then just attach the rafters to it... Yes, the purlins, I mean... Hmm, I think I should make a sketch in paint again....
"He's not going to have an industry exactly, but he should be able to unload heavy stuff from the trailer, engines, tractor tires, etc. anything that might be good to lift with a hoist instead of a kidney belt and a broken body... "
"He's not going to have an industry exactly, but he should be able to unload heavy stuff from the trailer, engines, tractor tires, etc. anything that might be good to lift with a hoist instead of a kidney belt and a broken body... "
was thinking more about if there were any weights you had, like how many kg he wants to be able to lift, but based on what I sketched out a bit quickly, you would set 140x70 with 4mm material, which can handle about 2 tons in the middle to hang up, but if you weld it, you lose a bit of load-bearing capacity, and if you want some margins and with that dimension, it's enough to set it in the ceiling and let the beams rest on it, and they can handle 3m center-to-center with snow load and the self-weight for roof tiles.
but it's about 13kg/m, and you would need about 120m of that dimension, so that's about 1.5 tons there plus the other beams, so around two tons of steel, and yes, it's not cheap in those quantities, so it will be around 35-45kkr+VAT.
but it's about 13kg/m, and you would need about 120m of that dimension, so that's about 1.5 tons there plus the other beams, so around two tons of steel, and yes, it's not cheap in those quantities, so it will be around 35-45kkr+VAT.
Recalculated to build in wood???? I have in mind that for him, if he does most of the work himself, around 75-80K..... Then the roof metal is included in that too...
should it be torn down and rebuilt in a slightly different design, and what are his requirements then?
I could probably throw together a rough estimate later if I have that info, and in that case, what should remain, etc., and what the walls consist of now as I have an idea about how I would do it in such a case
but with no complications, you could manage about 500kg in lift on a block if you don't put anything on the upper floor and you use C24 timber, or if you can distribute it onto two, you could handle a ton, and the only place you would need a steel beam then is in the middle where there wasn't a wall but just some posts, but then the beams need to handle a tensile force, so they need to be well fastened with nail joints, but that might not be a problem
so how is it with what needs to be redone, and what requirements does he have?
but a rough estimate would be that it would be about as expensive with wood as with steel, I guess, but if I know more, I can calculate it a bit.
I could probably throw together a rough estimate later if I have that info, and in that case, what should remain, etc., and what the walls consist of now as I have an idea about how I would do it in such a case
but with no complications, you could manage about 500kg in lift on a block if you don't put anything on the upper floor and you use C24 timber, or if you can distribute it onto two, you could handle a ton, and the only place you would need a steel beam then is in the middle where there wasn't a wall but just some posts, but then the beams need to handle a tensile force, so they need to be well fastened with nail joints, but that might not be a problem
so how is it with what needs to be redone, and what requirements does he have?
but a rough estimate would be that it would be about as expensive with wood as with steel, I guess, but if I know more, I can calculate it a bit.
Above all, it takes a hell of a lot longer to make your own trusses, in wood. I'll repeat how it is now and how he wants it..... "Feels like it's skidded away a bit"
He currently has a garage with a sloped roof, barely 8-10% pitch on it.
His wooden beam inside that the roof rests on in the middle is starting to bend quite significantly now.....
thanks to it being a sloped roof, of course, the wall alignments are not the same... so...
he wants to remove the old roof, complete the masonry so it's in the same alignment, have new sturdy trusses with traditionally Swedish trusses.... He wants to keep the entire or parts of the beam construction but in steel instead to be able to take advantage of the possibility of having a tackle.... He is, of course, open to steel construction if it becomes cheaper, he's friends with a metal and steel dealer, so it shouldn't be impossible to get a good price on the steel.
He wants me to make sketches, to be involved in building, to do the calculations....
So 2 alternatives exist currently.... I think the steel construction is more appropriate as it's a decently large area he wants to have remodeled... Partly in terms of durability and also because it goes a hell of a lot faster with a steel frame, he also has access to tractors with most of the attachments, so it shouldn't be too heavy to handle.....
I'm going to make a sketch in Paint as mentioned, we'll see what some say about it... but right now I have a few other things going on....
He currently has a garage with a sloped roof, barely 8-10% pitch on it.
His wooden beam inside that the roof rests on in the middle is starting to bend quite significantly now.....
thanks to it being a sloped roof, of course, the wall alignments are not the same... so...
he wants to remove the old roof, complete the masonry so it's in the same alignment, have new sturdy trusses with traditionally Swedish trusses.... He wants to keep the entire or parts of the beam construction but in steel instead to be able to take advantage of the possibility of having a tackle.... He is, of course, open to steel construction if it becomes cheaper, he's friends with a metal and steel dealer, so it shouldn't be impossible to get a good price on the steel.
He wants me to make sketches, to be involved in building, to do the calculations....
So 2 alternatives exist currently.... I think the steel construction is more appropriate as it's a decently large area he wants to have remodeled... Partly in terms of durability and also because it goes a hell of a lot faster with a steel frame, he also has access to tractors with most of the attachments, so it shouldn't be too heavy to handle.....
I'm going to make a sketch in Paint as mentioned, we'll see what some say about it... but right now I have a few other things going on....