Oh wise ones!
We have looked at a house that we are interested in... Built in 1975 on a concrete slab (without underfloor heating, only in the bathroom which was installed a few years ago). It's a 1½-story house. Located just below a ridge, but the ground is excavated about 4 meters in front of the house so it doesn't feel like a natural stop for moisture. However, we know nothing about the drainage.
It has already been inspected and the report states that there is microbial growth in the attic. It should be okay to check the ventilation up there and arrange airflow, right? Then, the house had a water damage in the kitchen 5 years ago, which apparently wasn’t properly addressed, meaning the kitchen needs to be fully redone in an insurance case due to moisture under the floor. Next to the kitchen is the staircase and in the space under the staircase, the inspector measured moisture at 85%.
We, who are not so knowledgeable, wonder if we should be worried? According to the realtor, the insurance company will handle the moisture damage renovation, but we still can't stop wondering if there's further cause for concern. What we've read about slab-on-grade foundations that first came about in the 70s is that they didn’t work so well and are often moisture damaged.
Another thing we've read is that if a vinyl floor, for example, has come loose or shows bubbles, it could be a sign of moisture in the concrete slab. In one of the rooms, the flooring has bubbled... It could also be nothing...
We would also like to invest a bit as it is currently heated with oil-filled electric radiators and we would like to invest in a hydronic heating system. That adds up.
Thoughts?
We have looked at a house that we are interested in... Built in 1975 on a concrete slab (without underfloor heating, only in the bathroom which was installed a few years ago). It's a 1½-story house. Located just below a ridge, but the ground is excavated about 4 meters in front of the house so it doesn't feel like a natural stop for moisture. However, we know nothing about the drainage.
It has already been inspected and the report states that there is microbial growth in the attic. It should be okay to check the ventilation up there and arrange airflow, right? Then, the house had a water damage in the kitchen 5 years ago, which apparently wasn’t properly addressed, meaning the kitchen needs to be fully redone in an insurance case due to moisture under the floor. Next to the kitchen is the staircase and in the space under the staircase, the inspector measured moisture at 85%.
We, who are not so knowledgeable, wonder if we should be worried? According to the realtor, the insurance company will handle the moisture damage renovation, but we still can't stop wondering if there's further cause for concern. What we've read about slab-on-grade foundations that first came about in the 70s is that they didn’t work so well and are often moisture damaged.
Another thing we've read is that if a vinyl floor, for example, has come loose or shows bubbles, it could be a sign of moisture in the concrete slab. In one of the rooms, the flooring has bubbled... It could also be nothing...
We would also like to invest a bit as it is currently heated with oil-filled electric radiators and we would like to invest in a hydronic heating system. That adds up.
Thoughts?
This is how I see it from a layman's perspective.
microbial growth in the side wind: Somewhere, warm humid air is leaking up into these attic spaces from your house. Probably the plastic is not tight, which is why warm humid air leaks there. The simplest way to solve this is to create a negative pressure in the house through mechanical exhaust ventilation.
water damage in the kitchen: Always troublesome with moisture damage, but a great opportunity for you if you get to influence how the result will be, find out why there was moisture damage and why it wasn't completely fixed...
regarding the stairs: not so surprising perhaps that there is moisture if there was moisture damage in the adjacent room that wasn't fixed, the moisture could have spread there, should also be taken care of by the insurance company.
Regarding the concrete slab, I've heard that all concrete slabs that don't have underfloor heating contain moisture that travels from the ground up, which is why you put plastic down before laying wooden floors on the concrete slab. Additionally, there are many who have ventilated sheet mats under their floors so the moisture is transported out that way...
However, there's a problem with 70s houses and that's the lack of water-borne heating systems, so just that could actually be a reason not to buy the house; I myself live in a 70s house with electric heating and often ponder how to get a water-based system into the house, and considering the poor insulation under the slab, underfloor heating is almost out of the question...
- M
microbial growth in the side wind: Somewhere, warm humid air is leaking up into these attic spaces from your house. Probably the plastic is not tight, which is why warm humid air leaks there. The simplest way to solve this is to create a negative pressure in the house through mechanical exhaust ventilation.
water damage in the kitchen: Always troublesome with moisture damage, but a great opportunity for you if you get to influence how the result will be, find out why there was moisture damage and why it wasn't completely fixed...
regarding the stairs: not so surprising perhaps that there is moisture if there was moisture damage in the adjacent room that wasn't fixed, the moisture could have spread there, should also be taken care of by the insurance company.
Regarding the concrete slab, I've heard that all concrete slabs that don't have underfloor heating contain moisture that travels from the ground up, which is why you put plastic down before laying wooden floors on the concrete slab. Additionally, there are many who have ventilated sheet mats under their floors so the moisture is transported out that way...
However, there's a problem with 70s houses and that's the lack of water-borne heating systems, so just that could actually be a reason not to buy the house; I myself live in a 70s house with electric heating and often ponder how to get a water-based system into the house, and considering the poor insulation under the slab, underfloor heating is almost out of the question...
- M
Thank you for the wise words.
We like the location of the house, BUT it is actually not cheap. We were surprised by the condition when we attended the viewing, as the price is about 300 higher than the average house in our area.
Now it has, however, been on the market for over 3 months and hasn't been sold, so we might be able to negotiate the price down a bit. But I doubt that it's possible to take off 30% of the price, which would make it more interesting for us.
How do you find out how the house is constructed to get answers about that issue with plastic between the floor and the slab? Do you have to look at blueprints then? Same for drainage? The current owner is not the same as the one who built the house, and the real estate agent didn't know much when we were at the viewing. And it wasn't possible to ask the owner at all since they weren't home for the viewing.....
We like the location of the house, BUT it is actually not cheap. We were surprised by the condition when we attended the viewing, as the price is about 300 higher than the average house in our area.
Now it has, however, been on the market for over 3 months and hasn't been sold, so we might be able to negotiate the price down a bit. But I doubt that it's possible to take off 30% of the price, which would make it more interesting for us.
How do you find out how the house is constructed to get answers about that issue with plastic between the floor and the slab? Do you have to look at blueprints then? Same for drainage? The current owner is not the same as the one who built the house, and the real estate agent didn't know much when we were at the viewing. And it wasn't possible to ask the owner at all since they weren't home for the viewing.....
I think the post initially sounds like a bit of a plea for support for the idea of backing out of the purchase? 
I think I would have been very hesitant myself. Moisture and mold can be quite tricky to deal with, and the fact that the house has direct electric heating means you would have to invest in alternative heating if you want to save some money in the future.
There ARE so many nice, good houses that might not look like much at first glance, but that could turn out to be really great!
I think I would have been very hesitant myself. Moisture and mold can be quite tricky to deal with, and the fact that the house has direct electric heating means you would have to invest in alternative heating if you want to save some money in the future. There ARE so many nice, good houses that might not look like much at first glance, but that could turn out to be really great!
If you have any doubts, don't buy. However, if you're good at fixing and dealing with problems that can be solved, this could be a bargain. Just point out the deficiencies and haggle hard! I've seen several houses that need complete renovations of every possible kind. So, the house you're looking at is not unique in any way; old houses always have something that needs addressing. Look at our house built in 1957, not re-drained, and while it's not leaking water, the paint has bubbled in some spots. We don't see it as a problem right now; we address the urgent issues first. The roof was replaced about 14 years ago, so it will last quite a while longer. We're working on the facade, tearing down all the bricks, and now the carpenters are working on framing, insulating, plastering, and so on... Having oil-filled radiators is not a big problem; if you feel the electricity bill is too high, invest in an air/air heat pump, it saves a lot! But as I said, if you're unsure, DON'T BUY! That's my advice. Try to find out as much information as possible, preferably the costs to fix problems, etc. What can you do yourself? It keeps the costs down significantly. Good luck!!!
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What makes us hesitant is that we have no idea of the extent to which the worst-case scenario can happen. How does one find out in advance how large the costs they might be facing could be? I read in the inspection papers that "the buyer has the right to a free phone call with the inspector to review the inspection." But what if you want to know BEFORE the purchase?
A house in bad condition, yet more expensive than similar houses in the same area. Realtors are starting to say that it takes longer to find buyers for houses and interest rates are rising. Doesn't sound like there will be any frenzied bidding on this house.
I would keep calm and either wait until the seller lowers the price because they couldn't sell it or wait for a better house for cheaper money.
Unless it's the exact house with the location you absolutely want, those feelings cost money.
I would keep calm and either wait until the seller lowers the price because they couldn't sell it or wait for a better house for cheaper money.
Unless it's the exact house with the location you absolutely want, those feelings cost money.
The worst-case scenario is that there is constant moisture seeping up through the slab into the house, and then you should install a ventilated subfloor mat (if you don't want to tear down the houseKayM76 said:
) in all rooms on the ground floor. So, a near-complete renovation of the ground floor, with subfloor mats and new floors, which will raise the height of the floor, and if you're unlucky, doors and frames will need to be adjusted as they won't fit the new floor.Then you should install mechanical exhaust ventilation to sort out the ventilation in the house...
- M
Though it's not run-down, not at all. If it weren't for the inspection, I would have taken it immediately. It's fresh, looks completely renovated. And the location - yes, that's definitely what makes up a lot of our interest. It's situated on the right side of the town and without too many neighbors nearby. Next to it is one of the municipality's green areas, which also makes the house attractive. But the plot is small, only 800 sqm, but on the other hand, we're not exactly garden people either.
How about klinkers? Do they let moisture through? If klinkers were laid in most of the house, could we perhaps avoid any rising ground air from getting trapped and starting to grow? Part of the house already has klinkers. We should probably try to find out if it's the current owner who renovated and laid the floors, I mean, he must have noticed if the old carpet was bad when they tore it out?
Then again, all this is just our own theories. The only thing we've confirmed is moisture under the kitchen floor related to a water leak 5 years ago and that there is beginning microbial growth in the attic.
How about klinkers? Do they let moisture through? If klinkers were laid in most of the house, could we perhaps avoid any rising ground air from getting trapped and starting to grow? Part of the house already has klinkers. We should probably try to find out if it's the current owner who renovated and laid the floors, I mean, he must have noticed if the old carpet was bad when they tore it out?
Then again, all this is just our own theories. The only thing we've confirmed is moisture under the kitchen floor related to a water leak 5 years ago and that there is beginning microbial growth in the attic.
Hello. I'm going to weigh in here as well.... Your last post definitely makes me advise against the purchase.. It seems like you're mostly considering the location.... That can make you blind to other details, like the condition of the house.
Don't think you can lay tiles to keep ground moisture away,,,, it will be the mortar and grout that cracks after a while.. Tiles are best for moisture from above where you don't have mortar..
As I said, I advise against this purchase, as you seem too inexperienced (Pardon the expression) to handle the house's deficiencies... Water and moisture damage are among the worst issues to deal with, but if you still decide to buy the house, my recommendation is to upgrade the heating system first, since electricity is really expensive nowadays.
Don't think you can lay tiles to keep ground moisture away,,,, it will be the mortar and grout that cracks after a while.. Tiles are best for moisture from above where you don't have mortar..
As I said, I advise against this purchase, as you seem too inexperienced (Pardon the expression) to handle the house's deficiencies... Water and moisture damage are among the worst issues to deal with, but if you still decide to buy the house, my recommendation is to upgrade the heating system first, since electricity is really expensive nowadays.
Keep looking instead! I grew up in an area where all the houses were built with impregnated sill directly on the slab. All the houses in the area had to break up the floors and fix the problem. My dad, who is a carpenter, did this himself, but many faced really strained finances to get rid of the problem.
The question is what type of slab it is.
There are two variants. The first is cold slabs where the insulation is on top. This construction is currently considered a risk construction, although it can work excellently if done correctly.
The newer type is what is built today, i.e., insulation under the slab and the concrete is kept warm. Both types apparently existed before -75, although type 1 was probably still the most common. If it's that type and you don't feel you can fix and repair it yourself, it can become quite expensive. Replacing all floors is a risk, and moisture could have migrated into the walls as well.
So at least a thorough check of how it is built, plus an additional moisture check and preferably also a mold detection dog, I would say.
There are two variants. The first is cold slabs where the insulation is on top. This construction is currently considered a risk construction, although it can work excellently if done correctly.
The newer type is what is built today, i.e., insulation under the slab and the concrete is kept warm. Both types apparently existed before -75, although type 1 was probably still the most common. If it's that type and you don't feel you can fix and repair it yourself, it can become quite expensive. Replacing all floors is a risk, and moisture could have migrated into the walls as well.
So at least a thorough check of how it is built, plus an additional moisture check and preferably also a mold detection dog, I would say.
If I were in your shoes, I would not buy. However, if you are a knowledgeable carpenter, then you can tackle everything yourself and renovate. Otherwise, NO!! The 70s houses were part of a building boom where houses were just mass-produced, with a lot of cutting corners from all sides. Do not buy 70s houses at all. My advice! Best regards, snickar estwing
We just don't know what to bet on... House with a basement - also risk of moisture with expensive drainage as a consequence. House with crawl space - considered a risk construction by many, with moisture and mold problems being commonplace. Slab foundation house - apparently exists in different variations where one is good while the other is catastrophic.
Sure, we're not carpenters or particularly handy people, but even we should be able to find something to live in, right? I certainly don't want to rent for the rest of my life but would rather invest money in a home to own. What you can't do yourself, you can hire someone who can, right?
We've also looked into building, but the cost is significantly higher and with rising interest rates, we're uncertain if it's something we want to invest in. We live in a small municipality where the investment might not be justified.
It's fortunate that the forum exists so you can discuss thoughts and ideas. Thank you all!
Sure, we're not carpenters or particularly handy people, but even we should be able to find something to live in, right? I certainly don't want to rent for the rest of my life but would rather invest money in a home to own. What you can't do yourself, you can hire someone who can, right?
We've also looked into building, but the cost is significantly higher and with rising interest rates, we're uncertain if it's something we want to invest in. We live in a small municipality where the investment might not be justified.
It's fortunate that the forum exists so you can discuss thoughts and ideas. Thank you all!