Croatia - Structural engineer requires 23cm casting against existing interior wall

[Ulltand]

Isn't it a bit drastic action in a 300-year-old house? Thinking from a cultural-historical value?

 

[mvs]

Isn't it a bit drastic to take such a measure in a 300-year-old house? Considering its cultural and historical value?

Do you mean the project itself, option 1, or option 2?

 

[Ulltand]

Do you mean the project itself, option 1 or option 2?

Yes, making such big changes in old houses?

 

[mvs]

Making such major changes in old houses?

There is very low ceiling height in some places, and in the middle of the house runs a 80cm stone wall that is severely water-damaged. The house has been rather haphazardly renovated over the past 50 years, so we feel that by gut renovating we will restore some of its former glory. In some places, we also hope to expose solid stone walls (remains to be seen).

The facade was also done incorrectly according to the cultural heritage board, so we will restore it to how it should be for houses of that time. The existing wooden joists are also a bit too weak in some areas.

Pick-up sticks unfortunately won't work if we're to make it livable - it won't turn out well and would be far too expensive. The cultural heritage board is also very pleased that new owners are finally restoring the house.

 

[nino]

Is it bothersome with the "byggnadsnämnden" in Croatia?
Can you renovate an existing shack in the countryside without dealing with lots of papers in a language you don't understand?
We can take it via pm if you want.

 

[mvs]

Is it complicated with the "byggnadsnämnden" in Croatia?
Can you renovate an existing ruckel in the countryside without a bunch of paperwork in a language you don't understand?
We can take it via pm if you want

They have their rules of course, but they are absolutely not impossible. It also varies greatly from place to place. We are in the middle of the old town among narrow alleys with remains from both Roman and Venetian rule, so then the cultural heritage committee has a lot to say.

In the countryside, the cultural heritage committee basically never gets involved. Then it's just the regular byggnadsnämnden. I think it works quite well and they are reasonable, BUT it is extremely slow. A lot of paperwork that needs to be done. We waited over a year for an A4 page that only mentioned "it is a house intended for use." The municipality had to issue this for us to begin the process. I don't know how many reminders we have sent. Many.

Everything takes place in Croatian, so an English-speaking architect is a must. If you have further questions, please feel free to PM me directly.

 

[Dortmunder DAB]

They have their rules, of course, but they are absolutely not impossible. It also varies greatly from place to place. We are in the middle of the old town among narrow alleys with remnants from both Roman and Venetian rule, so then the cultural heritage board has a lot to say.

In the countryside, the cultural heritage board practically never gets involved. Then it's just the usual building committee. I think it works quite well and they are reasonable, BUT it is extremely slow. A lot of paperwork to sort out. We waited over a year for an A4 page that merely mentions that "it is a house intended for use." The municipality had to issue this for us to be able to start the process. I don't know how many reminders we sent. Many.

Everything is in Croatian so an English-speaking architect is a must. If you have further questions, feel free to send via PM directly to me.

Is it Zadar or Split? The old town in Zadar is wonderful, wouldn't mind a flat there...

No wait, Venetian? Pula?

 

[cpalm]

Plockepinn unfortunately won't work if we're going to make it habitable - it won't be good and will be far too expensive.

But concrete floors still feel like an odd choice even if you feel it's necessary to "core sanitize." Why not wood?

 

[mvs]

Is it Zadar or Split? The old town in Zadar is wonderful, wouldn't mind having a pad there...

No wait, Venetian? Pula?

You're getting closer ;-)

 

[yonna]

Surely, many of us in here want to follow this exciting project with pictures!

 

[mvs]

But concrete slabs still feel like an odd choice even if you feel it's necessary to "core clean". Why not wood?

Yes, I was thinking about that the other day. It was the architect who suggested concrete slabs. There are some (minor) earthquakes in the area, so perhaps that's why? And it's quite nice to avoid springy floors which you easily get with wooden beams. On the other hand, the house has stood for several hundred years with wooden beams, so obviously that works too - despite minor earthquakes. As I write this, I'm thinking it might be better to simply cut the current wooden beams straight off and simply insert new wooden beams into the existing walls - this time at the right height. Then we lay boards over and then a thin layer of cement (3-5cm) on top. You can see this solution in many older houses in Croatia, precisely to keep the weight down.

 

[mvs]

We are surely many here who want to follow this exciting project with pictures!

Maybe I'll start a separate thread eventually ... with some pictures and so on

 

[cpalm]

And it is quite nice to avoid bouncing floors, which you can easily get with wooden beams.

No, that's nonsense, a properly sized wooden beam does not bounce.
I think you are thinking entirely correctly, except I don't understand why you need cement on top.
It seems completely crazy to build a "house within a house" as he suggests.

 

[mvs]

No, that's nonsense, a properly dimensioned wooden joist does not flex.
I think you're thinking completely right, except that I don't understand why you need cement on top.
It seems completely crazy to build a "house within a house" as he suggests.

The problem is that most of the wooden joists in the really old houses there are incorrectly dimensioned. And the beams are usually mounted at slightly different heights, so the floors often slope a lot. Many then try to stabilize and level by laying a thin layer of cement/concrete on top. It’s often seen. Then I wonder if it might not be an advantage to have a thin layer of concrete/cement if, like us, you're going to build a bathroom on the upper floor. If we can freely choose the placement of the load-bearing beams, I'd happily skip a thin layer of concrete/cement, but if we have to use existing holes for the beams, then I think it might be worth it to lay a thin layer of concrete/cement on top.

 

[Timmermannen77]

Making a counter-casting on a wall requires extensive knowledge in forming, as the pressure on the form becomes double. Bracing and anchoring are very important to get right.
I think it would have been better to build up the walls with an air gap between the old wall and the new interior wall.