I already have not one but two threads about this darn wall =) But shame on the one who gives up, at least I've now found a company that has come to look at the wall and gotten a bit more clarity on what needs to be done. I'm a novice on the subject, so it feels good to share some thoughts with those who may have done something similar.
The wall is a load-bearing one in a condominium apartment on the first floor, with an apartment above and a basement/storage/laundry room on the ground floor below.
The material is concrete with dimensions of 250cm in height, 150cm in width, and about 15-16cm thick. There is a door opening in the wall now that is about 70cm wide if you exclude the door frame and 200cm in height, and the opening will be after demolition about 200-220cm wide depending on how much is saved to possibly incorporate the beam at a 200cm height, I assume. I'm not entirely sure about the height, but I understood that this was how the person calculated it.
This person spoke about two alternatives for support, the first being to set up beams like a goal with 2 posts and a bar, and the other being to lay only a bar with unloading against the existing load-bearing wall. The beams they work with are made of steel.
The wall
Illustration before
Post, post, bar
Only bar
Drawing <---CLICK HERE
There's about 5cm of sand under the floor; the living room has parquet and the kitchen has a vinyl floor. It was assessed that the parquet in the living room would withstand the ceiling stamping, but in the kitchen, there was doubt that the likely masonite board under the vinyl would suffice for unloading, despite distribution at the unloading. If there are marks on the floor or if the parquet gets water damaged during the potential wall cutting, it doesn't bother me as it will be replaced in the future anyway.
Thoughts:
1. General opinion on just a bar, do you think it could work? I questioned it a bit because the outer wall isn't load-bearing; according to the drawing, the load-bearing wall builds into the outer wall.
2. If a better foundation is needed for unloading against the kitchen floor during stamping, would it suffice to lay a 20mm chipboard or similar over the vinyl covering the floor area?
3. Saw or chisel the wall, does the price differ much in general? Sawing must provide a better finish but requires water cooling and should be the more expensive option.
4. The beams should be "fire-protected" according to the rules, I haven't gotten into it yet, but is it something that must be included in the building notification? Or does it just require that you do it and show it during the final inspection? It didn't sound too complicated, just that you need to know about it.
The company conducting the support work has larger jobs as references from, for example, shopping centers and the Royal Dramatic Theatre, etc., and they did not consider the job technically difficult to perform. The persons who will carry out the demolition will be provided by them, although not employees of that company. That's what I can think of now, feel free to suggest anything else that one should consider if you come up with anything spontaneous.
Best regards
The wall is a load-bearing one in a condominium apartment on the first floor, with an apartment above and a basement/storage/laundry room on the ground floor below.
The material is concrete with dimensions of 250cm in height, 150cm in width, and about 15-16cm thick. There is a door opening in the wall now that is about 70cm wide if you exclude the door frame and 200cm in height, and the opening will be after demolition about 200-220cm wide depending on how much is saved to possibly incorporate the beam at a 200cm height, I assume. I'm not entirely sure about the height, but I understood that this was how the person calculated it.
This person spoke about two alternatives for support, the first being to set up beams like a goal with 2 posts and a bar, and the other being to lay only a bar with unloading against the existing load-bearing wall. The beams they work with are made of steel.
The wall
Illustration before
Post, post, bar
Only bar
Drawing <---CLICK HERE
There's about 5cm of sand under the floor; the living room has parquet and the kitchen has a vinyl floor. It was assessed that the parquet in the living room would withstand the ceiling stamping, but in the kitchen, there was doubt that the likely masonite board under the vinyl would suffice for unloading, despite distribution at the unloading. If there are marks on the floor or if the parquet gets water damaged during the potential wall cutting, it doesn't bother me as it will be replaced in the future anyway.
Thoughts:
1. General opinion on just a bar, do you think it could work? I questioned it a bit because the outer wall isn't load-bearing; according to the drawing, the load-bearing wall builds into the outer wall.
2. If a better foundation is needed for unloading against the kitchen floor during stamping, would it suffice to lay a 20mm chipboard or similar over the vinyl covering the floor area?
3. Saw or chisel the wall, does the price differ much in general? Sawing must provide a better finish but requires water cooling and should be the more expensive option.
4. The beams should be "fire-protected" according to the rules, I haven't gotten into it yet, but is it something that must be included in the building notification? Or does it just require that you do it and show it during the final inspection? It didn't sound too complicated, just that you need to know about it.
The company conducting the support work has larger jobs as references from, for example, shopping centers and the Royal Dramatic Theatre, etc., and they did not consider the job technically difficult to perform. The persons who will carry out the demolition will be provided by them, although not employees of that company. That's what I can think of now, feel free to suggest anything else that one should consider if you come up with anything spontaneous.
Best regards
Must start with your terms:
What you call a "ribba" is called a beam. A beam carries loads perpendicular to its extension.
What you call a "stolpe" is called a column. A column carries loads along its length.
The above applies even if the same steel profiles happen to be used.
Now to the questions.
1 The option with only a beam is something I am somewhat doubtful about in this case because it seems uncertain how the support will work at the end closest to the outer wall. I believe the remaining concrete wall stump does not have enough load-bearing capacity for all the loads.
I would choose the option with a beam + two columns.
Also, remember that the floor above your apartment must be supported during the work! You cannot just remove your wall without replacement support!
2 You cannot place the columns on the floor/parquet (or whatever the material was). The load must be transferred to the underlying floor slab. Therefore, make holes in the floor covering and set the columns down to the concrete below.
3 Sawing usually is more expensive and messier. Any damage from manual demolition can be easily repaired.
4 Fire protection consists of encasing columns/beams with gypsum. Often in multiple layers.
What you call a "ribba" is called a beam. A beam carries loads perpendicular to its extension.
What you call a "stolpe" is called a column. A column carries loads along its length.
The above applies even if the same steel profiles happen to be used.
Now to the questions.
1 The option with only a beam is something I am somewhat doubtful about in this case because it seems uncertain how the support will work at the end closest to the outer wall. I believe the remaining concrete wall stump does not have enough load-bearing capacity for all the loads.
I would choose the option with a beam + two columns.
Also, remember that the floor above your apartment must be supported during the work! You cannot just remove your wall without replacement support!
2 You cannot place the columns on the floor/parquet (or whatever the material was). The load must be transferred to the underlying floor slab. Therefore, make holes in the floor covering and set the columns down to the concrete below.
3 Sawing usually is more expensive and messier. Any damage from manual demolition can be easily repaired.
4 Fire protection consists of encasing columns/beams with gypsum. Often in multiple layers.
Yes, the terms were meant more figuratively speaking, but now I know the correct terms anyway =)
You probably misunderstood question 2, it's about the support during the work as you described it, "stämpning/stämpa" is the term I've heard for it. It's meant as temporary support, not "point support" but distributed over a larger area, do you think that would work then?
Where can I read about fire protection, I wonder? There was talk about gypsum and possibly painting with fireproof paint if I remember correctly, where can I delve into the subject?
Best regards
You probably misunderstood question 2, it's about the support during the work as you described it, "stämpning/stämpa" is the term I've heard for it. It's meant as temporary support, not "point support" but distributed over a larger area, do you think that would work then?
Where can I read about fire protection, I wonder? There was talk about gypsum and possibly painting with fireproof paint if I remember correctly, where can I delve into the subject?
Best regards
Just because no one else mentioned it, but is it okay with the board to demolish this bearing wall?
Because if you haven't gotten their approval, you can just forget about it as you don't own the apartment, only the right to live there.
Because if you haven't gotten their approval, you can just forget about it as you don't own the apartment, only the right to live there.
Absolutely =) I spoke with the association first, showed them the floor plan I had in mind, and asked if the wall was load-bearing or not. It was said that it was, and I received the drawing of the affected part of the property and verbal approval as long as a construction notice is approved, but they wanted to see the final floor plan before work begins.
So now I'm just waiting to discuss with the structural engineer and get a floor plan from them, then a written certificate from the association, then the calculation is ordered from the engineer and then sent to the municipality. I've also talked to the insurance company, no issues according to them.
Best regards
So now I'm just waiting to discuss with the structural engineer and get a floor plan from them, then a written certificate from the association, then the calculation is ordered from the engineer and then sent to the municipality. I've also talked to the insurance company, no issues according to them.
Best regards
OK, I read a bit carelessly there.Kommod said:
I think it would be better with something stiffer than chipboard as a base for the jack.
Maybe some pieces of wall stud on edge?
It really depends on how much risk you want to take of the floor being somewhat damaged.
Hope they have some good solutions before the work starts then. The reason I'm wondering is precisely because it feels a bit "messy" to tear up the floor and remove sand for the stämp process, packed sand probably won't give way, but something sturdy is needed on top... mdf maybe? I'm thinking of some board instead of a beam just to distribute the weight better, but as I said, let's hope the craftsmen have a good handle on it.
Of course, I want to do as much as I can/am allowed to myself from a financial standpoint, and what I can think of right now is:
The foundation for the stämp process, which really mostly involves sourcing material for the floor.
Fireproof beam and pillar if I'm allowed.
Disconnect the electricity if I'm allowed = a 220 outlet and a switch for the ceiling lamp - not a dimmer.
Afterwork to simply make it look good.
Any other tips on what I should check if I'm allowed to do it myself?
Regards
Of course, I want to do as much as I can/am allowed to myself from a financial standpoint, and what I can think of right now is:
The foundation for the stämp process, which really mostly involves sourcing material for the floor.
Fireproof beam and pillar if I'm allowed.
Disconnect the electricity if I'm allowed = a 220 outlet and a switch for the ceiling lamp - not a dimmer.
Afterwork to simply make it look good.
Any other tips on what I should check if I'm allowed to do it myself?
Regards