Hi..
I have a steel beam as a support beam in my car port
spanning about 5 m from the garage wall to the beam and about 1.5 m overhang from the beam..I think I have a 160x90 beam with 8 mm gots in it
it holds well but last winter it sagged significantly when I had about 50 cm of snow on the roof
I am going to weld another beam under the existing one and
pre-tension them upwards about 3 cm + it might also be necessary to weld brackets under on the posts to help support the snow load
I live in Norrland so we have plenty of snow=)
Iron is a good material, it's as sturdy as can be, about 100x better than wood and easy to work with =)
could be because I've worked as a welder for xxx years
I have a steel beam as a support beam in my car port
spanning about 5 m from the garage wall to the beam and about 1.5 m overhang from the beam..I think I have a 160x90 beam with 8 mm gots in it
it holds well but last winter it sagged significantly when I had about 50 cm of snow on the roof
I am going to weld another beam under the existing one and
pre-tension them upwards about 3 cm + it might also be necessary to weld brackets under on the posts to help support the snow load
I live in Norrland so we have plenty of snow=)
Iron is a good material, it's as sturdy as can be, about 100x better than wood and easy to work with =)
could be because I've worked as a welder for xxx years
The best effect if you want to reinforce the beam (is it an I/H-beam?) is obtained if you reinforce equally on both the top and the bottom. By only reinforcing the bottom, you will create even higher stresses at the top of the beam. Steel is equally strong/weak when it comes to compression and tension loads.jockefors said:
//Magnus, in the final year of studying to become a mechanical engineer
hi ..
yeah, you're probably right, but the problem is that the roof trusses rest on the top side and I don't really want to tear down everything I built last year.. after all, the roof is about 15x7m so it's a bit too much work with that
the beam is a rectangular beam with dimensions ..approximately
160 mm high, 90 mm wide, and 8 mm thick
so it will probably come down to making a small emergency solution that's convenient...and hope it stiffens up a bit there's really not much missing for it to be 100%
yeah, you're probably right, but the problem is that the roof trusses rest on the top side and I don't really want to tear down everything I built last year.. after all, the roof is about 15x7m so it's a bit too much work with that
the beam is a rectangular beam with dimensions ..approximately
160 mm high, 90 mm wide, and 8 mm thick
so it will probably come down to making a small emergency solution that's convenient...and hope it stiffens up a bit there's really not much missing for it to be 100%
Hello MathiasS!
Back to your original question!
A 25 sqm roof that loads a 6m long beam will have a span of 4.2m on the roof. (If this is correct, I assume you mean a load-bearing so-called heart wall in the middle of the house acts as a support for the underframe.)
With the self-weight of the roof and snow load, the load (including various factors) that the beam must handle is 18.5 kN/m.
This leads to needing an HEA220 (h=210mm, weight 50.5kg/m).
The deflection will then be 22mm at normal snow load on the roof.
A glulam beam that needs to do the same job would need to be over 500mm high, so you're probably not interested in that...
Keep in mind that the pillar/wall/mounting/foundation the beam rests on must handle 5500kg as a point load!
/Engineer
Back to your original question!
A 25 sqm roof that loads a 6m long beam will have a span of 4.2m on the roof. (If this is correct, I assume you mean a load-bearing so-called heart wall in the middle of the house acts as a support for the underframe.)
With the self-weight of the roof and snow load, the load (including various factors) that the beam must handle is 18.5 kN/m.
This leads to needing an HEA220 (h=210mm, weight 50.5kg/m).
The deflection will then be 22mm at normal snow load on the roof.
A glulam beam that needs to do the same job would need to be over 500mm high, so you're probably not interested in that...
Keep in mind that the pillar/wall/mounting/foundation the beam rests on must handle 5500kg as a point load!
/Engineer
A professional tip is to order a pre-curved beam placed with the convex side upwards, which then straightens under its own weight and normal load.
Is there no space in the attic to hang the lower arms on a beam?
Most likely it will be very tricky to install, but it's fun to brainstorm.
Is there no space in the attic to hang the lower arms on a beam?
Most likely it will be very tricky to install, but it's fun to brainstorm.
Clever.
But it doesn't sound entirely cheap to order a pre-bent one? I've also learned that about half of the bending can be attributed to self-weight+beams/roof and the other half to the snow. So, completely bend-free, you can't be....
Since this beam is to be placed in a former exterior wall, the beam would interfere with the upper arms if laid on top. However, I have mounted a glulam beam in such a way in another part of the house - it worked very well.
It appears to be a HEA or HEB 200-240 that is being considered. The support points will be 3x 45x120 at each end. Probably some modifications in the floor joists will also be needed to get a good foothold on the hollow block wall. For example, one could cast a U-beam (which I happen to have) to distribute the load a bit and get a flat support.
But it doesn't sound entirely cheap to order a pre-bent one? I've also learned that about half of the bending can be attributed to self-weight+beams/roof and the other half to the snow. So, completely bend-free, you can't be....
Since this beam is to be placed in a former exterior wall, the beam would interfere with the upper arms if laid on top. However, I have mounted a glulam beam in such a way in another part of the house - it worked very well.
It appears to be a HEA or HEB 200-240 that is being considered. The support points will be 3x 45x120 at each end. Probably some modifications in the floor joists will also be needed to get a good foothold on the hollow block wall. For example, one could cast a U-beam (which I happen to have) to distribute the load a bit and get a flat support.
Unfortunately, I have no idea what it costs to order a curved beam; it probably costs quite a bit.
If it's true that the self-weight accounts for half of the deflection, the curvature can be designed so that the maximum deviation from a straight beam is about a quarter of that for an uncurved one. A quarter upwards with no snow load and a quarter downwards at maximum normal snow load. But it will be more with extreme snow load.
The deflection is actually smaller if the posts are really robust and the beam is tightly fixed to the posts so the post-beam connection cannot rotate.
If it's true that the self-weight accounts for half of the deflection, the curvature can be designed so that the maximum deviation from a straight beam is about a quarter of that for an uncurved one. A quarter upwards with no snow load and a quarter downwards at maximum normal snow load. But it will be more with extreme snow load.
The deflection is actually smaller if the posts are really robust and the beam is tightly fixed to the posts so the post-beam connection cannot rotate.
To summarize the results of the research (read: calculation assistance from Jonten and the Engineer here on the forum + others here in the thread), this results in an HEA or HEB 200 or 220. This gives a maximum deflection of 15-20mm. The supports will likely be 3 pieces of 45x120 at each end, prepared with a cozy spot directly on the underlying basement wall. The design load on each support point is approximately 5.5 tons.
If it is economically justifiable (probably not), it is a good idea to pre-stress the beam with about half the deflection.
I suppose I'll have to come back with a project thread on the theme "How hard is it to mount 400kg of steel in the ceiling?".....
In conclusion, one must both be delighted and marvel at the helpfulness and knowledge available here on the forum - fantastic!
If it is economically justifiable (probably not), it is a good idea to pre-stress the beam with about half the deflection.
I suppose I'll have to come back with a project thread on the theme "How hard is it to mount 400kg of steel in the ceiling?".....
In conclusion, one must both be delighted and marvel at the helpfulness and knowledge available here on the forum - fantastic!
Can't you on either side of the existing beam screw two L-shaped steel beams with the same height as the existing beam?
In other words, you place them with the "back" against the existing beam on either side, drill through holes, and then pull bolts through to thereby reinforce the existing beam (if there is already a wooden beam there)? It would be interesting to know what kind of increased load capacity this would provide.
In other words, you place them with the "back" against the existing beam on either side, drill through holes, and then pull bolts through to thereby reinforce the existing beam (if there is already a wooden beam there)? It would be interesting to know what kind of increased load capacity this would provide.
Hello!
I am a blacksmith, and I believe you should let a designer calculate this, as it is more extensive than it first appears, 6 meters is a long span and you need to consider snow loads and other factors.
When it comes to whether you should have glulam, kerto, or steel, the question is simple: steel, unless you want a half-meter glulam beam in the room =)
I would think that an HEA 200 is too weak for that span, HEA 240 or 260 is probably needed. You can install it yourself with 2-3 friends and an alpine lift which you can rent at Cramo or similar places. But I would actually recommend letting experienced blacksmiths do this even if it gets expensive for a private individual, they know their stuff.
You should order columns from a local blacksmith with foot and top plates, with holes in the beam and plate for attachment, you should also buy wedges to tension the existing floor structure.
As someone mentioned earlier, it’s not a bad idea to fireproof with, for example, 2 layers of gypsum, it doesn’t hurt, even if it's not a public building.
I quickly did a calculation and concluded that without columns and wedges, the cost for this should be around 25,000:- excluding VAT. So if you have a budget of 30, you’ll manage.
I am a blacksmith, and I believe you should let a designer calculate this, as it is more extensive than it first appears, 6 meters is a long span and you need to consider snow loads and other factors.
When it comes to whether you should have glulam, kerto, or steel, the question is simple: steel, unless you want a half-meter glulam beam in the room =)
I would think that an HEA 200 is too weak for that span, HEA 240 or 260 is probably needed. You can install it yourself with 2-3 friends and an alpine lift which you can rent at Cramo or similar places. But I would actually recommend letting experienced blacksmiths do this even if it gets expensive for a private individual, they know their stuff.
You should order columns from a local blacksmith with foot and top plates, with holes in the beam and plate for attachment, you should also buy wedges to tension the existing floor structure.
As someone mentioned earlier, it’s not a bad idea to fireproof with, for example, 2 layers of gypsum, it doesn’t hurt, even if it's not a public building.
I quickly did a calculation and concluded that without columns and wedges, the cost for this should be around 25,000:- excluding VAT. So if you have a budget of 30, you’ll manage.
If you lack willing and strong friends, you can solve many problems on your own as well. You can perform the assembly by lifting the beam with block and tackle attached to the rafters, right? So theoretically, it should be possible to do it entirely on your own 
. Just lift a couple of centimeters at each end at a time and run back and forth like that. When you get the beam in place, you can put the posts underneath and wedge them up. If you need to lift extra now, you can put in a hydraulic jack and a prop against the beam and press it upwards a bit and wedge more. Then you can tear down the old wall or the supports that replaced the wall during the mounting of the beam.
Bringing in a 400 kg beam might be a bit tougher alone. Here you probably need some help. Alternatively, if you can slide it in from the outside through a small hole in the wall. Do as they used to do to pull boats on land before. Round sticks of appropriate length that you place under the beam to make it roll.
. Just lift a couple of centimeters at each end at a time and run back and forth like that. When you get the beam in place, you can put the posts underneath and wedge them up. If you need to lift extra now, you can put in a hydraulic jack and a prop against the beam and press it upwards a bit and wedge more. Then you can tear down the old wall or the supports that replaced the wall during the mounting of the beam.Bringing in a 400 kg beam might be a bit tougher alone. Here you probably need some help. Alternatively, if you can slide it in from the outside through a small hole in the wall. Do as they used to do to pull boats on land before. Round sticks of appropriate length that you place under the beam to make it roll.