Today we began to tear down a wall that is not meant to be load-bearing, but we need to double-check with all you knowledgeable people before we start demolition.
The house is an old chapel from 1921, made of wood and, according to the prospectus, in log. The (possibly) load-bearing beams can be seen in the ceiling of the main hall.
Unfortunately, the wall we want to remove runs in the same direction as the ridge, which is what has made us uncertain.
Attaching some pictures and hoping for expert help!
Also attaching a picture of the ceiling in the main hall, which we believe to be load-bearing, as well as a picture of the little we know about the wall to be taken down (now, before we've removed all the boards). But the beam is approximately 45x45.
It is on the 1st floor, which I have circled.
The house is an old chapel from 1921, made of wood and, according to the prospectus, in log. The (possibly) load-bearing beams can be seen in the ceiling of the main hall.
Unfortunately, the wall we want to remove runs in the same direction as the ridge, which is what has made us uncertain.
Attaching some pictures and hoping for expert help!
Also attaching a picture of the ceiling in the main hall, which we believe to be load-bearing, as well as a picture of the little we know about the wall to be taken down (now, before we've removed all the boards). But the beam is approximately 45x45.
It is on the 1st floor, which I have circled.
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Hello,
Do you have any section through the house?
Can you clarify on any drawing where and in what direction the picture of the ceiling was taken?
The floors should span across the length of the house (shortest span), and since it works in your large hall where this wall is missing, one can assume that it is also built like that where the wall exists.
45x45 doesn't feel like something load-bearing.
Clarify as above, and we'll see if it becomes clearer and easier to answer.
Do you have any section through the house?
Can you clarify on any drawing where and in what direction the picture of the ceiling was taken?
The floors should span across the length of the house (shortest span), and since it works in your large hall where this wall is missing, one can assume that it is also built like that where the wall exists.
45x45 doesn't feel like something load-bearing.
Clarify as above, and we'll see if it becomes clearer and easier to answer.
No section drawingP patrikd84 said:
I stood at the blue circle and photographed as dashed.
The beams run along the short side, in other words.
My father is coming to take a look in an hour; for some reason, he wanted us to open up under a window to see better. No idea why, but I'm starting to open up under a window now
But the question is, what was the upper floor used for previously? With those spans, I would guess that the wall _is_ load-bearing/stabilizing for the floor structure. The beams do not look particularly strong in the photo. If only the room that is now marked as a bedroom has been used, it could explain why only that part is supported. What type of roof trusses are there?
Perhaps a bit unclear, but it hasn't been used as a bedroom. It was a dining room, but to have the chapel reclassified as a residence, it needed to be listed as a bedroom since there isn't a fire escape to the second floor yet. The drawings are 2 weeks old.P Probably Wrong said:
Adding again with an update.
Where were the last pictures taken? Please mark it again on the drawing to make it clear.
Can you see the roof trusses on the upper floor? Is the distance between the beams in the ceiling the same as the distance between the roof trusses?
I'm wondering if your "second floor" is supported by the roof trusses and not just a straight beam. Because then it looks like the span is significantly shorter (3.5 m instead of a little over 7 m). However, it's a bit tricky around the stairs etc., so not entirely clear.
Have you opened up towards the ceiling at the wall you are going to tear down? How is it at the opening to the kitchen? Is there a beam there that might support the floor?
Can you see the roof trusses on the upper floor? Is the distance between the beams in the ceiling the same as the distance between the roof trusses?
I'm wondering if your "second floor" is supported by the roof trusses and not just a straight beam. Because then it looks like the span is significantly shorter (3.5 m instead of a little over 7 m). However, it's a bit tricky around the stairs etc., so not entirely clear.
Have you opened up towards the ceiling at the wall you are going to tear down? How is it at the opening to the kitchen? Is there a beam there that might support the floor?
Yes, but what has the upstairs been used for when it was a chapel? Has the entire upstairs been a dining room, or just the part that is now a bedroom? If the remaining part hasn't been used at all (you can't see any floor in the first photo) that might explain why there is no load-bearing wall in the main hall (since the load is less and there aren't the same requirements for deflection). It was a comment to patrikd84's comment that "it works in the main hall".Hiréns said:
To be able to determine this, dimensions and information about the construction of the joists and roof trusses must be found/measured. But intuitively, my guess is still that the wall is load-bearing/stabilizing, and even if there are collar ties that reduce the free span, I think there will be quite a bit of deflection if the wall is removed.
What are the dimensions of the beams between the floors?
The ceiling in the great hall was removed by the previous owner in an attempt to make it more airyP Probably Wrong said:Yes, but what was the upper floor used for when it was a chapel? Was the entire upper floor a dining hall, or just the part that is now a bedroom? If the remaining part wasn't used at all (you can't see any floor in the first photo), that could explain why there isn't a load-bearing wall in the great hall (since the load is less, and you don't have the same deflection requirements). So that was a comment on patrikd84's comment about it "working in the great hall."
We believe it is partially load-bearing for the bedroom floor above, as the large beams visible in the first picture are no longer present in the kitchen part of the house. Which we now know after completely removing the wall. We will replace the wall with a beam approximately 100x200 resting on columns and the fireproof wall, which is made of brick.
Yes, you can see the rafters. There's roughly the same spacing between them as the beams in the intermediate ceiling but I can't know exactly right now. Anyway, we've decided to place a new, thick supporting beam in the kitchen. It will go from a built-in column to the fire wall which is brick (visible in the picture). To support the bedroom floor.P patrikd84 said:
Regarding the stairs, it seems to be the previous owner's idea to open up there. He resolved it with a new support inside the intermediate ceiling and a supporting column beneath it.
80x300 is not dance floor quality, but it does hold for a span of 7.5 meters. It can be reinforced if you want to reduce the flex.