Is your alternative better and cheaper if TS gets all their material for free?SBH said:
In what way?
Can't you just tell us in what way it is better and cheaper, straight up, instead of arguing and questioning TS? If you have a better suggestion, then present it and let TS decide whether he wants to benefit from it or not! Plus, then all of us can also take part in it whether TS wants to or not!
Member
· Stockholms Län
· 702 posts
I think it feels more solid if you assemble the wall lying down and put 2 pieces of, for example, 5x100 screws through the sill plate and top plate into each stud, then I wouldn't complement with toe-screwing.
However, if you want a flexible solution where you can move the studs when the wall is in place, I would only toe-screw (also 2 pieces 5x100mm at the top and 2 at the bottom). But I find it difficult to toe-screw so that it feels right (a bit too imprecise for my taste). Moreover, the stud usually moves from its intended position, and I must first set a stop screw on the opposite side before starting to screw.
If it wasn't a major wall so that the costs would skyrocket, I might also consider angles and anchor screws for maximum flexibility and precision.
I also think it's entirely okay to come up with suggestions for other approaches, and for oneself, it’s good to be able to evaluate and apply or dismiss the suggestions (even if it's easy to wear blinders and hard to rethink when you've finally made up your mind).
Otherwise, it easily becomes "Do you know what the difference is between the TGV and a French engineer from Polytechnique? - The TGV stops when it derails."
Ps1. Personally, I don't like nailing as I find it hard to hit, should have hearing protection, and it leaves ugly marks in the wood. Ps.
Ps2. To disturb the order more, are there metal expanders for 3 gypsum boards?
However, if you want a flexible solution where you can move the studs when the wall is in place, I would only toe-screw (also 2 pieces 5x100mm at the top and 2 at the bottom). But I find it difficult to toe-screw so that it feels right (a bit too imprecise for my taste). Moreover, the stud usually moves from its intended position, and I must first set a stop screw on the opposite side before starting to screw.
If it wasn't a major wall so that the costs would skyrocket, I might also consider angles and anchor screws for maximum flexibility and precision.
I also think it's entirely okay to come up with suggestions for other approaches, and for oneself, it’s good to be able to evaluate and apply or dismiss the suggestions (even if it's easy to wear blinders and hard to rethink when you've finally made up your mind).
Otherwise, it easily becomes "Do you know what the difference is between the TGV and a French engineer from Polytechnique? - The TGV stops when it derails."
Ps1. Personally, I don't like nailing as I find it hard to hit, should have hearing protection, and it leaves ugly marks in the wood. Ps.
Ps2. To disturb the order more, are there metal expanders for 3 gypsum boards?
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I understand if someone gets upset when someone else wants to play the role of "I know everything," but in this case, people took the time and tried to help him and even offered tips for better solutions! If I had asked a question about something, and someone provided a better solution to the problem, I would just be grateful because you can't know everything yourself!
Screwing standing studs at an exact position is no problem. You just cut a template with the exact measurement between the studs, place it between the last and the next stud, and screw on the free side. I recently did this when I installed about 100 studs where the framework was built standing. It worked great and all the studs ended up perfect. So it's a small matter 
@studion
So you're planning to set the sill and top plate with standing studs in between and finish by screwing drywall sheets onto this?
Then it's enough to just hold it together sufficiently until the first drywall sheet is in place, so I agree with daugaard in that regard.
I would buy cheap long chipboard screws from biltema/byggmax/jula etc.
Long (>50mm) and narrow (3.9 mm) are preferable to avoid easily splitting the wood at the ends.
Of the options I've listed above, I would preferably choose biltema's 75mm.
Then four in each stud, one from each side both at the top and bottom, so the stud doesn't twist or move. And sure, it might suffice with two screws sometimes too.
Once you've screwed the drywall, the angled screw attachment no longer matters.
Interior walls I've framed here in the house I've built have mainly been framed just like that, and with biltema's 75mm screws. The quality of the screw is of almost no importance here, as long as the tip is sharp enough to start drilling despite a 45° angle to the surface.
And don't bother with those who want to direct you to do it another way, it's perfectly OK to do it the way you want.
But sure, if the wall is down during assembly, it's also an option to nail/screw through the top plate/sill into the end grain instead of angled nailing/screwing.
It's entirely optional; personally, I would nail through the sill into the end grain because it's the fastest and cheapest, but there's nothing wrong with doing it the other way either.
So you're planning to set the sill and top plate with standing studs in between and finish by screwing drywall sheets onto this?
Then it's enough to just hold it together sufficiently until the first drywall sheet is in place, so I agree with daugaard in that regard.
I would buy cheap long chipboard screws from biltema/byggmax/jula etc.
Long (>50mm) and narrow (3.9 mm) are preferable to avoid easily splitting the wood at the ends.
Of the options I've listed above, I would preferably choose biltema's 75mm.
Then four in each stud, one from each side both at the top and bottom, so the stud doesn't twist or move. And sure, it might suffice with two screws sometimes too.
Once you've screwed the drywall, the angled screw attachment no longer matters.
Interior walls I've framed here in the house I've built have mainly been framed just like that, and with biltema's 75mm screws. The quality of the screw is of almost no importance here, as long as the tip is sharp enough to start drilling despite a 45° angle to the surface.
And don't bother with those who want to direct you to do it another way, it's perfectly OK to do it the way you want.
But sure, if the wall is down during assembly, it's also an option to nail/screw through the top plate/sill into the end grain instead of angled nailing/screwing.
It's entirely optional; personally, I would nail through the sill into the end grain because it's the fastest and cheapest, but there's nothing wrong with doing it the other way either.
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Yes, that's how you do it if you're installing where you can't screw from above/below, but as TS is building wall frames lying down and then raising them, toe screwing doesn't add anything and just makes it more complicated.thomasx said:To toe screw standing studs into the exact position is no problem. You just cut a template with the exact measurement between the studs, place it between the previous and next stud, and screw on the free side. I did this recently when I installed about 100 studs where the framework was built standing. It worked great and all the studs were perfectly aligned. So it's a straightforward task
But TS didn't accept that advice.
You screw one from the left side of the stud and one from the other side, making sure they don't collide, so one on each side. You do this for every upright stud that needs to be joined with the footing/top plate. That means 4 screws per upright stud.Studion said:
However, I don't understand why you insist on skewing; you don't seem to understand how it works, and it's much easier to screw through the footing and top plate if you build the wall lying down. Your attitude is not appreciated and does not fit with byggahus.
They do exist for 3-layer gypsum, yes.xyle said:
I have a package (or maybe two), because I was a handyman for a while at a preschool, and some previous handyman had bought several packages of gypsum expanders for 3-layer gypsum, obviously completely useless there, so I snagged a package thinking it might be good to have at some point in life.
I agree with the original poster, even though you might not need to react so strongly. I've asked a lot of questions here myself that have received similar answers. When it happens repeatedly, it gets a bit tiring. You might have made a decision based on 10 different factors that you don't want to/can't/won't explain in the question on the forum. In such cases, you don't want 20 different people questioning you, but rather an answer to your question.
For example, I've asked something about laminate flooring when I was planning to buy laminate. Then you get the question, "why are you buying laminate?" "Parquet is nicer." Sure, but I have a dog and want to lay laminate instead. "Lay tiles, that's nicer." Well, I personally think laminate looks nicer...
Earlier, I asked about an air-powered impact wrench I just bought. Then I get the response, "buy an electric one instead." Well, I've already bought an air-powered one...
I understand that sometimes questioning is necessary, and it's good if someone has an alternative solution they believe is better. But perhaps you should answer the basic question as well.
For example, you could respond:
If you want to angle screw, do it this way.........
But I suggest nailing instead, as it will give you these advantages.......
Personally, I would appreciate such a response more.
For example, I've asked something about laminate flooring when I was planning to buy laminate. Then you get the question, "why are you buying laminate?" "Parquet is nicer." Sure, but I have a dog and want to lay laminate instead. "Lay tiles, that's nicer." Well, I personally think laminate looks nicer...
Earlier, I asked about an air-powered impact wrench I just bought. Then I get the response, "buy an electric one instead." Well, I've already bought an air-powered one...
I understand that sometimes questioning is necessary, and it's good if someone has an alternative solution they believe is better. But perhaps you should answer the basic question as well.
For example, you could respond:
If you want to angle screw, do it this way.........
But I suggest nailing instead, as it will give you these advantages.......
Personally, I would appreciate such a response more.
I tried googling http://www.heco.se/products/?a=2&w=651 http://www.beijerbygg.se/wcsstore/B...ocus/4/Skivexpander_HM_121202_195154_7161.pdf But triple drywall is definitely more uncommon.xyle said:Well, there you go
However, there are several other fastening options.