Advice on decking and "pergola"

[rqx]

Hello,
I am planning a small deck with a pergola that will have a sailcloth for sun protection. This should be able to retract and extend, and I have a few questions.

The deck will be placed on an existing stone pavement, is 145x45 sufficient for the frame and beams? Since there will be no span, should even less suffice?

Two 95x95 posts will be attached to the frame. One for the pergola and one for a gate that will be attached, I have made reinforcements at the posts. How does it look? Do I need to add another piece at the pergola post against the wall?

The pergola frame at the front edge has a span of 4.4 meters (195×45) is that too much? It should only be self-supporting and maybe take a little wind that hits the sailcloth?

The pergola post is cut at the top so that a 195mm high and 50mm square piece remains. This creates a shelf for the pergola to rest on. Is this a correct and reliable way to build? Is the shelf too weak, or is the remaining "tenon" too weak to screw into?

Aesthetic question. What is considered or do you consider to be the most aesthetic:
1. Build a frame and have recessed beams so that they frame the decking.
2. Build a frame without recessed beams, lay decking, and then screw boards on edge outside the frame that frame the decking.
3. Build a frame without recessed beams and lay a frame of decking around the frame edges and then the decking inside.

Basically three different ways to frame the decking.

Grateful for advice and tips
/Tim

 

[crazytok]

You'll probably have to decide that for yourself. None of it is wrong, it's up to you to judge as you're the one looking at it...

I have placed double decking boards as trim. But whether it's the most aesthetically pleasing, I don't know.

 

[yonna]

If I have understood correctly, the canvas roof will have a width of 4 meters. It will sag significantly with that length. I have a canvas roof width of just under 2.50 meters and it is stabilized with a lightweight metal rod sewn into the outer edge. Additionally, it creates a substantial wind catch even with my considerably shorter width.

 

[rqx]

Hello,
My idea is for the sailcloth to be 4.5x2.3 meters and run with grommets along a wire from the short side to the short side. That is, along the 4.5 meters, it won't be able to sag as it runs along the wire. It will sag from the side and towards the house, but if it does so too much, I was thinking of adding another wire in the middle to hold it up. It's not fully thought out yet

 

[rqx]

Anyone have any advice/answers to my construction questions?

 

[crazytok]

The deck will be placed on an existing stone paving, is 145x45 enough for the frame and joists? Since there’s no span, should it suffice?

Yes, it depends on the span between the pillars. If you have a full stone paving underneath, you could theoretically use 45x45, but you want something substantial to screw into, and if you’re placing posts that protrude, a solid joist to screw into is good. It also depends on how high you want your floor to be. Personally, I wouldn’t go below 145x45, it’s not a major expense for this small construction anyway.

Two 95x95 posts will be attached to the frame. One for the pergola and one for a gate to be attached to, I've added reinforcements at the posts. How does it look? Do I need to add another piece at the pergola post against the wall?

Will you attach the posts to the walls available? If so, these will stabilize the outermost post with the cross beams and won’t need any reinforcement. Or do you mean the shorter posts you've drawn? I don’t quite understand where the gate will be? You might need to cast a pillar for the shorter post in the deck if you want it stable, and no railings are built with it to stabilize it.

The front pergola frame has a span of 4.4 meters (195×45), is that too much? It should just support itself and perhaps take some wind from the sailcloth?

It depends on how much sag you're willing to tolerate from its own weight. A sailcloth can catch a lot of wind but it likely won't break a 195, not even a 90mm—it’s more about the attachment to the posts and everything else. Will you have any cross beams? Or just open with sailcloth? I think 195mm will work well since it’s so long, otherwise it might look very flimsy. But you could probably go down to 170mm if you want.

The pergola post is cut at the top so that a 195mm high and 50mm square piece remains, creating a ledge for the pergola to rest on. Is this a correct and reliable way to build? Is the ledge too weak or is the remaining "peg" too weak to screw into?

Okay, this might be your weakest link. But if you bolt the 195mm beams together and then attach just one of these to the 50mm “peg” with double carriage bolts or whatever you plan to use, it should work. What I mean is that you shouldn’t drill or screw too many screws and weaken this peg further.

 

[rqx]

Yes, this depends on the span between the plinths. If you have a full paving underneath, you could theoretically use 45x45, but you'd want something to screw into, and if you're going to have posts sticking up, it's good to have a decent joist to screw into. Then it also depends on how high up you want your floor to end up? Personally, I wouldn't go under 145x45; there's not much money in this small construction anyway.

It's directly on the paving, but I understand what you mean. Better to have a solid deck for the posts.

Will you be attaching the posts to the available walls? If so, these will stabilize the only outer post with the cross beams and won't need any reinforcement. Or do you mean the shorter posts you've drawn in? I don't quite understand where the gate will be? The shorter post on the deck you would probably need to cast a plinth for if you want it really stable and no railings are to be built to stabilize it.

Yes, the posts will be attached to the house wall. The freestanding post is a fence where the "hasp" will be placed from the gate. The short post on the deck is only for the gate, so it needs to be quite stable, though only 1m high, if even that.
I attach a picture of how the "gate" part is to look. The gate is at the far end and fence slats will be attached to the house post.

Depends entirely on how much you tolerate it bending under its own weight. A sailcloth picks up quite a bit of wind but it probably won't snap a 195, not even a 90mm, it's probably more about the attachment to the posts and everything else. Will you have any transverse slats? Or just completely open and sailcloth? I think 195mm will be good when it's so long because otherwise, it might look very slender? But you could probably go down to 170mm if you want.

No, it will just be open and sailcloth, though the sailcloth will be attached to wire running from short side to short side.

Okay, here you probably have your weakest link. But if you screw together the 195mm beams and then only attach one of these to the 50mm "tenon" with double carriage bolts or whatever you intend to use, that should work. What I mean is you probably shouldn't drill or screw too many screws and weaken this tenon further.

No, that's kind of what I was thinking, maybe also notch each 195 beam so they sit "in" each other? Or should I use 3x 120x45 to make an even larger post out there? Is there any disadvantage to using a 95x95 that you notch compared to using two 95x45?

Thank you very much for the answers!

/Tim

I haven't laid out all the slats in the sketch but you get it

 

[rqx]

Additional questions came up:

I have two outer corners that are angled. How do I attach these in the best way? There aren't any brackets I can screw from the inside at the correct angle. Or do I just screw through the sloped joist and into the short side of the straight joist?

If you don't use joist hangers, do you screw the floor joists from the outside then? Or do you toe-screw them from the inside out? Or are joist hangers a must?

 

[crazytok]

Additional questions came up:

I have two outer corners that are angled. How do I attach these in the best way? There are no brackets I can screw from the inside that are at the correct angle. Or do I simply screw through the angled bearer into the short side of the straight bearer?

Screw through the angled one into the short side. Then you can reinforce with a rule on the inside.

If you don't use joist hangers, do you screw the floor joists from the outside then? Or do you screw them from the inside at an angle? Or are joist hangers a must?

Screw from the outside, 3 pieces of 6x120 screws are suitable.

 

[rqx]

Thank you very much!

 

[rqx]

Another question:

My stone paving slopes 45mm from the house to the end of the decking. Should I:
1. Lay the decking level
2. Lay the decking with the same slope
3. Adjust so I have less slope but not level

If I lay the decking level, the outer bearer will hover 45mm. Then do I solve this with two decking boards as a skirt? Then I have to miter the skirt on the short side to get a wedge-shaped filler too.