Wooden floor, insulation or not?

[Himmelsfararen]

Unfortunately not anyone who can help me... not that I can think of right away anyway.

The floor should sound dull (solid) not hollow. a first check at least!

 

[Slottsfrun]

The floor should sound dull (mute) not hollow. An initial check at least!

How do you check that? Knock?

 

[Himmelsfararen]

The floor should sound dull (mute) not hollow. Just a first check!

Can you

How do you check that? Knock?

Yep, also try to gently press upwards on the board under the house. There are several different ways to build. Some screw the boards in place and others leave them loose, if you can push up the board and there is resistance then you have insulation, without it the board goes up easily. Most likely it's screwed in from the inside.

 

[Himmelsfararen]

Can you

Yep, also try gently pushing upwards on the panel under the house. There are several different ways to build. Some screw the panels in place, and others leave them loose; if you can push up the panel and there's some resistance, then you have insulation; without it, the panel goes up easily. It's most likely screwed in from the inside.

If you tap on the panel, it should sound solid/dull, hollow sound=no insulation.

 

[Oldboy]

Have the heat pump set to +18.

By heat pump, do you mean an air-to-air heat pump (AAHP) or an air-to-water heat pump (AWHP)? It makes a difference in floor temperature.
An AAHP blows warm air down onto the floor (if it's a regular wall-mounted model). This keeps the floor, walls, and ceiling at the same temperature.
An AWHP that heats through radiators results in much cooler floors.
Also, 18°C is quite a modest indoor temperature that doesn't provide acceptably warm floors to walk on in socks/barefoot, at least in my opinion.
If it's only 10°C at the floor, I assume the house is heated to 18°C via radiators. Otherwise, it might be draft through the joist space or at the sill?
A subfloor on piers/cornerstones means there's outdoor air under the floor, i.e., -20°C. Then quite a bit of indoor heating is required for the floors not to feel cold. An AAHP is excellent for counteracting cold floors, but it also requires an open floor plan without large block furniture with bases that block air movements.

 

[Huddingebo]

What is the surface layer on the floor then?
Wood? Or a surface layer of some plastic material or stone?

 

[Slottsfrun]

Can you Yep, try gently pressing upward on the disc under the house. There are several different ways to build. Some screw the discs in place while others let them lie loose, if you can press up the disc and there is resistance, you have insulation; if not, the disc moves up easily. Most likely it is screwed in from the inside.

By air heat pump, do you mean an air/air heat pump (AAHP) or an air/water heat pump (AWHP)? It makes a difference in floor temperature. An AAHP blows warm air down onto the floor (if it is a regular wall-mounted model). This makes the floor, walls, and ceiling the same temperature. An AWHP that heats via radiators results in a noticeably colder floor. Moreover, 18C is a rather meager indoor temperature that doesn't provide acceptably warm floors to walk on in socks/barefoot, at least in my opinion. If it is only 10C at the floor, I assume the house is heated to 18C via radiators. Otherwise, there might be a draft through the joists or at the sill? A crawl space with piers/cornerstones means there is outdoor air under the floor, i.e., -20C. Then a lot of heat is needed inside for the floors not to feel cold. An AAHP is excellent for counteracting cold floors, but it also requires an open floor plan without large block furniture with bases that block air movements.

A wall-mounted air heat pump that can be adjusted to blow any direction. So, no radiators. According to what you wrote, it's not surprising the floors are so cold. When you mention drafts through the joists/sill, do you mean due to lack of insulation, or can it happen even if there's insulation present? Do you think the crawl space might be uninsulated? Or would the floors be even colder if that was the case?

 

[Slottsfrun]

What is the surface layer on the floor then?
Wood? Or a surface layer of some plastic material or stone?

Wooden floor.

 

[Himmelsfararen]

By luftvärmepumpen, do you mean an air/air heat pump (LLVP) or an air/water heat pump (LVVP)? It makes a difference for the floor temperature. An LLVP blows warm air downward onto the floor (if it is a typical wall-mounted model). This ensures that the floor, walls, and ceiling have the same temperature. An LVVP that heats via radiators provides significantly colder floors. Also, 18C is a rather meager indoor temperature that does not offer acceptably warm floors to walk on in socks/barefoot, at least in my opinion. If it's only 10C at the floor, I assume the house is heated to 18C via radiators. Otherwise, it might be floor draught through the joists or near the sill? A ground floor on piers/cornerstones means there is outdoor air under the floor, i.e., -20C. Then, a lot of indoor heating is needed for the floors not to feel cold. An LLVP is excellent for countering cold floors, but it also presupposes an open plan without large block furniture with bases blocking air movements.

My ground floors are always sealed at the bottom with screws and adhesive/tape, and I hope there is some "ventilation" from above through the wooden floor; there are different schools and one often assumes a construction is the same as one's own. I perceive that it is an LLVP. Maybe the entire floor construction needs a few days to acclimate, and the temperature needs to be higher and the airflow downward toward the floor!

 

[Oldboy]

A wall-mounted heat pump that can be set to which direction it should blow. So no radiators. According to what you write, it is not surprising that the floors are so cold.

Partly, but 18C is a weak temperature in winter. It doesn't feel warm.

Draft through floor joists/sill, do you mean because there is no insulation or can it happen even if it is insulated?

It can happen even if it is insulated.

Do you think the subfloor might be uninsulated?

No.

Or would the floors be even colder if that were the case?

Yes.

 

[Slottsfrun]

My subfloors are always sealed below with screws and sealant/tape, and I hope there is some "ventilation" from above through the wooden floor. There are different schools of thought and one often assumes a construction is the same as what one does personally. I perceive that this is an LLVP. Maybe the entire floor structure needs a few days to acclimatize and the temperature needs to be higher with the airflow directed downwards towards the floor!

Where do you mean the ventilation should be? I don't quite understand.

Maybe I should "crank up" the temperature (how high) and see if it affects the floors positively?

I already have the airflow directed downwards towards the floors. But since heat rises and it's so extremely cold outside, maybe that's not enough to heat up the floors?

 

[Slottsfrun]

Partly, but 18C is a weak temperature in winter. It doesn't feel warm.


It can happen even if it's insulated.


No.


Yes.

What temperature do you think I should have on the heat pump?

If the floor were uninsulated and the air heat pump is at
+18. How cold do you think the floor would be in that case, when it's currently -20 degrees outside...

 

[Himmelsfararen]

Where do you mean the ventilation should be? I don't quite understand.

Maybe I should "crank up" the temperature (how high) and see if it positively affects the floors?

I already have the airflow directed downwards towards the floors. But since heat rises and it's so incredibly cold outside, maybe it's not enough to warm up the floors?

If a trossbotten (beam gap) is completely sealed, condensation and mold can occur. (You can use plastic under the indoor floor; I don't do that.) Some builders choose to vent a little from the outside (down) and others ensure that the indoor floor is never 100% sealed, even when new. (The floor often dries narrower, and small gaps become air channels.) My reasoning is that if it's sealed below, I can’t get much draft. Try with 22 degrees and a bit more fan overnight and see how it feels tomorrow. Your floor construction has some delay upwards and downwards in temperature.

 

[Slottsfrun]

If a crawl space is completely closed, condensation and mold can occur. (One can use plastic under the indoor floor, but I don't) Some builders choose to allow slight ventilation from outside (below), while others ensure the indoor floor is never 100% sealed even when it's new. (The floor often shrinks and small gaps become air channels.) I reason that if it's sealed below, I can't get too much draft. Try with 22 degrees and a bit more fan during the night and see how it feels tomorrow. Your floor construction has some delay upwards and downwards in temperature.

No idea how tightly/sealed the crawl space is.
I also have quite a few rugs on the wooden floor, so not many gaps. I see that some boards have separated a bit, but when I felt in the groove, the tongue is still intact.
So there's no ventilation even though it's separated.

To my knowledge, there's no plastic under the wooden floor. However, there's a vapor barrier in the walls, which the carpenter intended to skip, but it was supposed to be there according to the instructions… I was the one who pointed this out to him as well.

You hire craftsmen because you think they should know what they're doing…
But, this one made a serious mistake with an air gap he created under the roof (which I noticed), so that's why I'm a bit extra "worried" that something else might be built wrong…

 

[Himmelsfararen]

No idea how tight/sealed the subfloor is.
Also, I have quite a few rugs on the wooden floor, so few gaps. I see that some boards have separated a bit, but when I felt in the groove, the tongue and groove are still together.
So there's no ventilation there even though it has separated.

To my knowledge, there's no plastic under the wooden floor. However, there is a vapor barrier in the walls, which the carpenter intended to skip, but which should be there according to the instructions… I was the one who pointed this out to him.

You hire craftsmen because you think they should know what they're doing… But, this one made a big mistake with an air gap he created under the roof (which I noticed), so that's why I get a bit extra "worried" if something else is built incorrectly...

My reasoning about the subfloor was just reasoning. Finding a good craftsman today is difficult. Try with 22 degrees and tap on the boards underneath tomorrow. Good luck!