Tips for (the weekend) renovation of existing roof

[snowjim]

What grits should I have for sandpaper for the giraffe sander?

 

[johel572]

Feels a bit dangerous to use a sander on a porous ceiling. Hand sanding gives a little better control. It's quite exhausting to sand with a giraffe as well.

 

[snowjim]

Feels a bit dangerous to use a sander on a porous ceiling. Hand sanding gives better control. It's quite tiring to sand with a giraffe too.

No chance I'm sanding this ceiling by hand, there's way too much paint and unevenness to get it good in a reasonable time. I suspect that with a giraffe, you can sand the 20 sqm in under 30 minutes probably.

Got a range of papers P80, P120, and P240.

 

[Jonaasa]

It looks like just tretex boards. I can say that any hole you have in the ceiling you will never get rid of. The boards absorb moisture and there will be risings in all cavities. Wash with painting wash. Sand down the uneven parts with an 80 grit paper. Use Bostic fast filler for the holes. Then a medium filler for the seams. The latex sealant will dry out over time and the ceiling will crack over time. Use paper tape when you fill with medium filler. Then it all depends on how skilled you are at filling. I am a trained painter for example. The thicker, the longer the drying time. Wait a day after the first filling. Sand by hand as it is insanely tiresome to stand with a giraffe up against the ceiling. Also, the risk is high that you'll sand away the filler with the giraffe. When you are satisfied with your filling, you can just paint. Edge paint with the brush around the ceiling. Then roll in the direction of the light. Roll the roller in the paint bucket. Not in some crappy tray. There should be a lot of paint. Watch out for tractor feet. Which is the thick ridge from the roller edges. If you paint in the morning, you can paint again in the evening. You should paint 3 times for the best result. You absolutely can't finish it over a weekend if you're an amateur. Good luck.

 

[123abc]

The drawback of the byggmax spackel you linked to is that it has a very long drying time; the last time I used it, it didn't dry overnight, and in some places, it wasn't dry even after a whole day (I only spackled old wallpaper seams and not very thickly).
It's also easy for air to get into the spackel; in some cases, air pores appear only when you paint (even though the surface looks perfect before and there are no visible pores).
I assume you've already started, otherwise, I recommend you buy another spackel.
If you apply it thickly, not much else will get done this weekend, as you'll be waiting for the spackel to dry.

 

[snowjim]

It looks like only tretex boards. I can say that you will never be able to remove every hole you have in the ceiling. The boards absorb moisture and there will be ridges in all cavities.

Don't know what the definition of tretex boards is but they don't look quite like what Google shows. These consist, first, of a masonite board about 2 mm thick, cavities where there's some paper in an interesting shape, probably intended as insulation and sound absorption, then finally a masonite board again about 2mm. They probably absorb moisture as you say, as most wood does, but I haven't actually seen any ridges yet.

Clean with paint washing solution. Sand down the uneven areas with 80 grit paper. Use Bostik quick-filler for the holes. Then a medium filler for the joints.

I used the giraffe sander directly without cleaning first, it turned out to be much harder to remove old paint than I had anticipated. Some have written that the giraffe sander is too effective, but I disagree; I used P80 paper and it only took a little off the surface, and I still spent 1.5 hours sanding the 17 sqm ceiling. After that, we cleaned with paint washing solution and a cloth, followed by fine filler from Byggmax. The joints are not meant to be filled but are supposed to be filled with latex caulk. Trying to make this entire surface even is doomed to fail; if you fill the joints they'll just crack after a few years (an educated guess ).

Over time, the latex caulk will dry out and the ceiling will crack eventually.

Hmm, that doesn't sound good, that wasn't the impression I got when I looked up which latex to buy. How long does it take to dry out and crack? It feels like it should be at least 10 years anyway? But sure, there are probably different qualities, I know some yellow faster than others.

Use paper tape when filling with medium filler.

I bought fiberglass tape from Byggmax as they pointed it out, but it may be completely wrong?



But I'm a bit unsure of where to use this? The holes are quite small? And setting this up will add a few mm in height.

Wait a day after the first filling.

Yes, it says 7-10 hours, just like on Beckers, I was actually hoping it would only take a couple of hours, but unfortunately, no. The surface dries in 3 hours, but you can't fill or paint over until 7-10 hours, depending on the thickness.

Sand by hand because it's extremely tiring to hold a giraffe sander up to the ceiling. Plus, there's a risk you'll sand away the filler with the giraffe.

Sanding by hand doesn't sound very fun, but sure, it should be easier when it's just filler to sand off. My other thought is to use a finer sandpaper and lower the speed on the giraffe.

Haha, yeah, it wasn't fun to use it for 1.5 hours. Luckily, it came with a harness, but it was made for wall sanding, so I had to improvise a bit to get it up to the ceiling.

Once you're satisfied with your filling, you can start painting. Cut in with a brush around the ceiling edge. Then roll in the direction of the light. Roll the roller in the paint bucket. Not in some trash tray. It should be heavily loaded with paint. Watch out for tractor lines. Those thick lines from the edges of the roller.

Yes, exactly, something like that, though I had planned to fill and sand in two rounds.

But rolling in the direction of the light, does that apply even if both the floor and ceiling are laid in the opposite direction (as it is in the whole house)? I suspect more grooves get filled if we paint in this way? Both the floor and ceiling planks are laid in the house’s direction, so to speak, from short side to short side. Since many think it looks odd when different rooms have different directions, we've kept it consistent.

If you paint in the morning, you can paint again in the evening. You should paint three times for the best result. You can't possibly do it in a weekend if you're an amateur. Good luck.

According to the sellers at Beckers, they said 1-2 times, but sure, 3 times is obviously better. My hope is that the paint will cover some of the defects that exist since I haven't been able to sand down the paint completely, and in some places in the ceiling, there hasn't been any paint at all. I've tried to fill with filler but with poor effect. Apparently, you should use a good amount of paint, as you say, and I have two rollers to choose from, fine and medium coarse, i.e., medium-long hair and long hair depending on the structure. I'm currently considering using the medium coarse one actually, what do you think about that?

 

[snowjim]

The downside of the Byggmax filler you linked is that it has a very long drying time. The last time I used it, it didn't dry overnight, and in some spots, it wasn't dry even after a whole day (I only filled old wallpaper seams and not very thickly). It's also easy for air to get into the filler, and in some cases, air pockets appear only when you paint (even though the surface looks perfect beforehand and there are no visible pores). I assume you've already started, otherwise, I recommend you buy another filler. If you apply it thickly, not much more will be done this weekend, as you'll be waiting for the filler to dry.

I tried to find as much help as possible regarding the choice of filler before buying, but very few actually thought the Byggmax filler was bad, so I went with it. We found it easy to apply, but as you say, the drying time is 7-10 hours according to the container, but that also applies to Beckers actually.

It looks dry now after 8 hours, but it also states that the surface dries in 3 hours, so it's maybe not that surprising.

I think I'll continue with this and then give my opinion. Right now, there's nothing indicating that it's worthless, but it's not impossible.

 

[snowjim]

Was supposed to start sanding the ceiling right after work yesterday, but we forgot something important—there were 2 boxes in the ceiling in completely the wrong place for future planning. This is how they looked:




Just putting cover lids there won't look nice, so I had to quickly come up with a solution. Filling the hole with putty won't be easy. After some thought, I concluded that I could cut out a piece from other wood and press it in, but the problem is that I don't have such a big hole saw (79 mm) and it won’t be easy to attach. The first thought here was to glue thicker wood into the hole, so I jumped in the car and drove to buy something at Byggmax, arriving 15 minutes before the store closed!

Found a hole saw of approximately the right size and got a gypsum board of 1.5 cm and a piece of wood 2 cm.

Back home, the problem of attaching the material still remained. Glue won’t be very durable, and I can't really do much more with it today then. After some deliberation, I concluded that the best way must still be to screw them in from the attic, so these are produced:


http://i.imgur.com/7hgEFW2.jpg

Up into the attic and cut up the insulation where the boxes are, it was truly not a fun job! Hard to reach, to say the least! Pulled up the boxes (the electricians will fix this later) and screwed in the blocks with 2 screws each.




As you can see, they are not perfect, but with house fix, it turned out well! The question is whether there's a risk of cracks!? Hope not!!!

Then it was "just" to get started with the sanding. I thought it would take only 30 minutes since people said it easily digs in. But just like when we sanded the concrete floor in the basement, it turned out this was neither quick nor fun work! The giraffe weighs quite a bit as someone previously mentioned, but luckily it came with a harness that was made for walls but worked reasonably well with a bit of improvisation. I would never have managed to sand the ceiling without this harness, I can say! After 1.5 hours, it was enough; I had then gone over the entire ceiling, but the paint was not gone as I had hoped, just dulled. However, I think since we're using a roller, the ceiling will have some texture, so it doesn’t need to be 100% smooth.

After this, it was first cleaning with a fiber cloth and paint wash then puttying, which was much easier and faster than I thought. Sure, where there were larger damages, a bit of shaping was required, but it was not really very difficult.

Today, we'll start by sanding over the ceiling again, hopefully, it'll go faster since it's only putty that needs to be sanded, not sure if I should use a finer sandpaper now, maybe 120? After this, it'll need to be washed again, and then a new layer of putty will be applied, this time even over the house fix. We’ll probably wait 10 hours before sanding, so sometime tonight around 10-11, and then the first coat of paint should be possible.

 

[snowjim]

Here are some more pictures after sanding and mudding








Better pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/JyMeI

Edit, this one too


http://i.imgur.com/U4UOJX9.jpg

 

[snowjim]

When it comes to house-fix, it states that it dries in 2 hours if the thickness is 2 mm, and that is exactly the thickness we have here. However, it might be that some house-fix has gotten around the block since it didn't fit perfectly, but it shouldn't take more than 10 hours to dry, so I should be able to apply putty now.

http://media-pms2.schoenox.net/casco/docs/cascohusfix_se_se_tds.pdf

 

[Jonaasa]

Don't know what the definition of tretex boards is but they don't look quite like what Google shows. These consist first of a masonite board about 2 mm, a cavity with some paper in an interesting form, probably intended as insulation and sound absorber, then finally a masonite board again about 2mm. They certainly absorb moisture as you say, most wood does, but so far I haven't seen any warping, actually.

I used the giraffe sander directly without washing, it turned out to be much more difficult to remove old paint than I had the impression of. Some have written that the giraffe sander is too effective, I can't agree with that, I used P80 paper and it only took a little on the surface, still spent 1.5 hours sanding the ceiling which is 17 sqm. After this, we washed with paint wash and a cloth, after which fine building putty from Byggmax was applied. The joints should not be puttied but are intended to be filled with latex caulk. Trying to make this ceiling completely even is doomed, if you putty the joints they will only crack open after a year or so (an educated guess ).

Hmm, that doesn't sound good, that wasn't the impression I got when I was searching for which latex to buy? How long does it take to dry and crack? Feels like it should be at least 10 years, right? But sure, there are probably different qualities, I know some yellow faster than others.

Have bought fiberglass tape from Byggmax as they pointed out, but maybe it's completely wrong?

[bild]

But I'm a bit unsure about where to use this? The holes are quite small? And applying this will add a few mm in height.

Yes, it says 7-10 hours just like on Beckers, I actually hoped it would only take a couple of hours but unfortunately not. The surface dries in 3 hours but you can't putty or paint over until after 7-10 hours depending on thickness.

Sanding by hand doesn't sound fun but sure, it should be easier when it's only filler that needs to be sanded off. Otherwise, my thought is to throw on a finer sandpaper and lower the speed on the giraffe.

Haha, it wasn't fun to use it for 1.5 hours, luckily it came with a harness but it was made for working on walls so we had to improvise a bit to get it up to the ceiling

Yes exactly, something like that, but I had planned to putty and sand 2 rounds.

But rolling in the direction of the light, does that apply even if both the floor and ceiling are in the opposite direction (which they are in the whole house)? I suspect it’s easier to fill more grooves if we paint this way? Both floors and ceilings are aligned with the direction of the house, so to speak, short side to short side. Since many consider it looks strange when different rooms have different directions, we've stuck with this.

According to Beckers salespeople, they said 1-2 times, but sure, 3 times would obviously be even better. My hope is that the paint will cover some of the defects present, I haven't been able to sand the paint down completely and in some places on the ceiling there has been no paint at all. Tried to fill with filler but with poor effect. You should apparently use quite a lot of paint as you say, and in my case, I have 2 rollers to choose from, fine and medium-coarse, i.e., medium-long hair and long hair, depending on the texture. Currently considering going with medium-coarse actually, what do you think about that?

Go with the medium-coarse and a lot of paint. Paint with a brush around the ceiling and if you have a connection for the ceiling lamp. It's called cutting in. Do you still have the ceiling moldings? If so, it's nicest to paint them with the ceiling paint.

 

[123abc]

I tried to find as much help as possible regarding the choice of filler before purchasing, but there were very few who actually thought Byggmax filler was bad, so I went with it. We found it easy to apply, but as you say, the drying time is 7-10 hours according to the bucket, but that also applies to Beckers, actually.

It looks dry now after 8 hours, but it also says that the surface dries in 3 hours, so maybe it's not so strange.

I think I'll continue with this and give my verdict later. Right now, there's nothing indicating it's worthless, but it's not impossible.

Byggmax filler is like a lottery and the quality seems to vary with different batches, sometimes it's good filler and sometimes it's rubbish, and you don't know what you've got until you've tested it, which makes it a poor choice for a time-pressed project.
Did the filler dry within the specified time?

 

[Stefan N]

Most of it is a complete lottery there, can't handle their quality and instead buy what you know is okay every time in real stores.

 

[snowjim]

Use the medium-coarse roller and plenty of paint. Paint with a brush around the ceiling and if you have a fitting for the ceiling light. It’s called cutting in. Do you still have the ceiling moldings? If so, it's nicest to paint them with the ceiling paint.

Thanks, this is only the ceiling being painted, moldings will be installed later when the walls are probably going to be replaced.

 

[snowjim]

Byggmax filler is a real gamble and the quality seems to vary for different deliveries; sometimes it's good filler, sometimes it's rubbish, and you don't know what you got until you test it, which makes it a poor choice for a time-pressed project. Did the filler dry within the specified time?

Aha, yes, the one I got seemed to work well, though there were many bubbles in it, but that doesn't matter in this case. To speed up the drying time, I used a hairdryer; it was very effective, took 10 min to dry if even that. I had to apply MANY layers where lamps had been previously; it didn't turn out perfectly but hopefully good enough.