Hello.
After a total water damage, we now have new opportunities to decorate the ground floor of our 1.5-story villa as we wish. (The entire downstairs has been cleared out). We are now planning to place the kitchen in a different location and a post is in the way of our plans.
The house is a 1.5-story villa (1974) with 3"x8" beams where every other one (see sketch) also serves as a rafter, across these goes an ipe 200 beam throughout the length of the house (11.9 m). - Marked in black in the sketch, you can see the span measurements in the first picture. All walls that are "gray-blue" are original and are still in place today, the yellow partition is my plan for extra bracing, and the green column is a support that can be added if needed as a wall is going to be placed there.
What I want is to remove the red-marked post which is 4"x4", leaving a free span of about 7m between the other supports. (green post + outer wall).
I personally think that the wall parallel to the beam should provide some support but am unsure how much an i-beam can carry. The roof of the house is a gable roof with a 38-degree pitch.
I will consult a structural engineer on-site before doing anything, but I thought that surely there are many here who can immediately see if this is impossible or not.
I hope I've included the necessary data; otherwise, shout out!
Extremely grateful for a quick response as we are about to start this soon.
Best regards: Marcus
After a total water damage, we now have new opportunities to decorate the ground floor of our 1.5-story villa as we wish. (The entire downstairs has been cleared out). We are now planning to place the kitchen in a different location and a post is in the way of our plans.
The house is a 1.5-story villa (1974) with 3"x8" beams where every other one (see sketch) also serves as a rafter, across these goes an ipe 200 beam throughout the length of the house (11.9 m). - Marked in black in the sketch, you can see the span measurements in the first picture. All walls that are "gray-blue" are original and are still in place today, the yellow partition is my plan for extra bracing, and the green column is a support that can be added if needed as a wall is going to be placed there.
What I want is to remove the red-marked post which is 4"x4", leaving a free span of about 7m between the other supports. (green post + outer wall).
I personally think that the wall parallel to the beam should provide some support but am unsure how much an i-beam can carry. The roof of the house is a gable roof with a 38-degree pitch.
I will consult a structural engineer on-site before doing anything, but I thought that surely there are many here who can immediately see if this is impossible or not.
I hope I've included the necessary data; otherwise, shout out!
Extremely grateful for a quick response as we are about to start this soon.
Best regards: Marcus
What a strange formatting? - I can't find an edit button?
Best regards, Marcus
Edit: Yes, it's true, the beams at 3"x8" (75x200mm) are split at the I-beam and recessed into it, not sure if this changes anything, the I-beam and the beams are in the same plane just as drawn in the sketch. /Edit
Best regards, Marcus
Edit: Yes, it's true, the beams at 3"x8" (75x200mm) are split at the I-beam and recessed into it, not sure if this changes anything, the I-beam and the beams are in the same plane just as drawn in the sketch. /Edit
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No, likely doesn't work.
Or, yes. It is possible to remove the red pillar, but the reinforcements you suggest are not sufficient.
(There is probably a pillar in the wall next to your new, green one. Or? I.e., symmetrically with the red one?)
Or, yes. It is possible to remove the red pillar, but the reinforcements you suggest are not sufficient.
(There is probably a pillar in the wall next to your new, green one. Or? I.e., symmetrically with the red one?)
Yes, there is a pillar next to the green one. Also one on each outer wall.
I suspected it was a bit risky. - I checked calculation software for glulam and it suggested a 115x650 glulam beam for 7 meters without support in the middle, what would this mean in steel, do you think?
"Or, yes. It is possible to remove the red pillar, but the reinforcements you suggest are not sufficient."
I suspect you mean that in this case you have to place a beam under the transverse I-beam with support at the ends? - That's what I wanted to avoid then. Or is there something else to do that I haven't thought of? (Replacing the I-beam is probably not an option, it would be too much work).
Another thing, how about moving the red post half a meter sideways (towards the green post), that shouldn't make much of a difference, right?
Regards: Marcus
I suspected it was a bit risky. - I checked calculation software for glulam and it suggested a 115x650 glulam beam for 7 meters without support in the middle, what would this mean in steel, do you think?
"Or, yes. It is possible to remove the red pillar, but the reinforcements you suggest are not sufficient."
I suspect you mean that in this case you have to place a beam under the transverse I-beam with support at the ends? - That's what I wanted to avoid then. Or is there something else to do that I haven't thought of? (Replacing the I-beam is probably not an option, it would be too much work).
Another thing, how about moving the red post half a meter sideways (towards the green post), that shouldn't make much of a difference, right?
Regards: Marcus
Of course, but the I-beam currently in place is not made of wood either, it's likely calculated for a free span of about 4 meters. My question was really what is needed to reach 7 meters. I only found the calculation program for glulam, it would have been interesting to see what this would be when converted to steel... including weakening during a fire.
Best regards, Marcus
Edit: If I’m not mistaken, I think I have seen at least 2 structural engineers here - So don't be shy now... =) /Edit.
Best regards, Marcus
Edit: If I’m not mistaken, I think I have seen at least 2 structural engineers here - So don't be shy now... =) /Edit.
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(7/4)^2=3
That is, the beam needs to be approximately 3 times stiffer if it is utilized to 100% today (which it probably isn't).
Placing a transverse beam might be tricky. What does the upper floor look like? Can you lift up and manage the load there instead?
That is, the beam needs to be approximately 3 times stiffer if it is utilized to 100% today (which it probably isn't).
Placing a transverse beam might be tricky. What does the upper floor look like? Can you lift up and manage the load there instead?
Yes, exactly, that was my thought as well, a transverse beam would essentially be as long as the beam it's supposed to support, I'm not very informed but spontaneously it feels like it would need to be THICK to be able to pick up that column load in the middle.. also, I'd rather not have a 20-30 cm beam visible in the ceiling.. I think the post is more discreet and less obtrusive.Krawk said:
The upper floor is also tricky.. there's a wall running parallel to the beam pretty much right above it on one side, there's a bedroom and on the other side a family room.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by lifting up, but if you imagine a transverse beam there, the problem is the same, but reversed, i.e., a 30 cm (??) beam in the middle of the floor instead, which is even worse. But otherwise, you could say the beam runs in the same line as the roof ridge of the house, so in the attic you could throw something up.. but I've no idea how that would work...
Regards: Marcus
EDIT: Can you hang the load in the rafters? - If so, you could put a transverse beam in the attic, it would span a few meters at most, and then you could bolt a brace through the upper floor wall up to the attic.. maybe a bit too complicated? /Edit
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In existing trusses, it is probably not possible. In theory, it is possible to build a steel frame with a brace down to the same point where the pillar stood. In practice, however, it involves a lot of work with steel beams, tearing down walls on the upper floor, new base loads, etc...
It is possible that the pillar can be moved to the corner of the kitchen island. However, it depends on how the beam looks with any joints, etc.
The best way to get a neat solution to this is to bring in a structural engineer who can get into all the details. If you want a neat, slim (and safe) solution, that's the right way to go.
It is possible that the pillar can be moved to the corner of the kitchen island. However, it depends on how the beam looks with any joints, etc.
The best way to get a neat solution to this is to bring in a structural engineer who can get into all the details. If you want a neat, slim (and safe) solution, that's the right way to go.
Yes, it seems like a bit "too" much work just to remove a support...
The beam appears unsplit, they are usually stocked in 12m lengths, and as long as it's not welded in the middle, it should be continuous without joints... (no joint at the post I want to remove at least).
Yes, it probably leans towards approaching a structural engineer if I am to do something about it... unfortunately, I think I've already "here" found out what he will say... that is, it’s not possible, but it might be worth asking, the interior would be so much better without a pillar in the corner, even though I've seen that even such a thing can look nice if done right.
Thanks for all the help so far anyway!
Best regards, Marcus
The beam appears unsplit, they are usually stocked in 12m lengths, and as long as it's not welded in the middle, it should be continuous without joints... (no joint at the post I want to remove at least).
Yes, it probably leans towards approaching a structural engineer if I am to do something about it... unfortunately, I think I've already "here" found out what he will say... that is, it’s not possible, but it might be worth asking, the interior would be so much better without a pillar in the corner, even though I've seen that even such a thing can look nice if done right.
Thanks for all the help so far anyway!
Best regards, Marcus
I tested sketching a proposal where the pole is retained, feedback is appreciated! - (Also on the rest of the interior)
I don't think the pole is very disruptive, at least not on the computer.. the question is how it will be in reality, as that's what really matters =)
Best regards: Marcus
I don't think the pole is very disruptive, at least not on the computer.. the question is how it will be in reality, as that's what really matters =)
Best regards: Marcus