Should one buy an old house and renovate everything or build a new house?
to all of you.......
I am thinking that, if I buy an old house for 1 million and renovate it completely, it feels wasteful to throw away all the wood... interior walls and buy new ones, if they can't be reused... then I reason that it might be just as good to spend 1 million to get a new house constructed and fix the interior myself, I'm not a carpenter like "estwing" and have never driven a nail in my life, but I am good at woodworking hehehe. so I think it could be fun to work on something you really dream about (the house) ...
regarding the location in a big city, which allows you to get back the amount you build for directly after just a couple of years, I reason like this, I am very stingy I must say, to spend 300k to 700k on a plot of land, I would never do that, just to be in a big city, so I aim for a smaller town where the plot costs under 100k ihhihi,, but well, is that the right thinking or should one aim for a big city so you have a chance to get back the money when you sell, you are welcome to redirect my thinking if you want, I am such an amateur at this with houses, the market, etc...
as I see on estwing's project, I feel that if I would do the same thing and don't have the knowledge, it will be expensive because as soon as it concerns the technical part, I want to hire an expert to be sure that the construction is correct, so the house doesn't collapse, it's not like building a hut or???...
by the way, where can you get a 1 million villa?? it's old, and you probably have to renovate the technical parts like heating so you have modern technology so the operational cost is lower per month or??. it feels like throwing away a working heating system or whatever it is, just because it's old, it works but the operational cost is probably high in it??
regards DVD
I am thinking that, if I buy an old house for 1 million and renovate it completely, it feels wasteful to throw away all the wood... interior walls and buy new ones, if they can't be reused... then I reason that it might be just as good to spend 1 million to get a new house constructed and fix the interior myself, I'm not a carpenter like "estwing" and have never driven a nail in my life, but I am good at woodworking hehehe. so I think it could be fun to work on something you really dream about (the house) ...
regarding the location in a big city, which allows you to get back the amount you build for directly after just a couple of years, I reason like this, I am very stingy I must say, to spend 300k to 700k on a plot of land, I would never do that, just to be in a big city, so I aim for a smaller town where the plot costs under 100k ihhihi,, but well, is that the right thinking or should one aim for a big city so you have a chance to get back the money when you sell, you are welcome to redirect my thinking if you want, I am such an amateur at this with houses, the market, etc...
as I see on estwing's project, I feel that if I would do the same thing and don't have the knowledge, it will be expensive because as soon as it concerns the technical part, I want to hire an expert to be sure that the construction is correct, so the house doesn't collapse, it's not like building a hut or???...
by the way, where can you get a 1 million villa?? it's old, and you probably have to renovate the technical parts like heating so you have modern technology so the operational cost is lower per month or??. it feels like throwing away a working heating system or whatever it is, just because it's old, it works but the operational cost is probably high in it??
regards DVD
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hi dvd*weird name* though mine not so good either haha.dvd1234 said:
ok will try to answer a bit here now..
apologize I haven't replied before but was at a live poker tournament just now.
well, the ground floor and upper floor were done, it was just the entryway left.
then 4.5.
but that was last year's answer, currently, I don't know since the economy is different and I'm not updated on what house prices are now.
I've spent about: 700,000 kr now including the geothermal heating in this.
the value has increased as you know during this 10-year period, don't forget that+construction.
I've only recycled a bit as there are millions of 5-6" nails in everything, everything is tongue-and-groove walls 3"9".
of course, there have to be buyers for that money too, the location I live in is central, kindergarten next door, grades 1-9 within 200 m.
3 kindergartens, shopping center, sports halls you name it.
regarding whether I know what I'm doing when I build?
hahaha yeah when I tore down the front and the other gable I cried because I probably didn't know what I was doing.
keep in mind that we, that is, me and my partner anette + the cat (named) sambod^_^b have lived THE WHOLE time during construction.:eek:
but I have stepped up a dimension on the glulam beam to be on the safe side, my biggest concern has been the pillar standing in the middle of the house, didn't know if I had support for it, BUT a nice footing from the chimney stack stuck out and presto it was done.
then all the H beams etc I took the same as when building a new house and using these as a load-bearing wall.
then this works too.
but switched to a larger one in the living room though haven't posted pictures of the entry or upper floor yet so you don't see it.
regarding the lumber for the framing hahahah well you can laugh because when we were on a job we tore off old roofs made in the 50s.
the demolition company sawed the tongue-and-groove 20 cm on each side and lifted down the trusses, the size of the trusses was 38mm x 150 mm x 4 m.
drove home very many loads with the trailer and cleared this mess and put it up.
saved for 3 years and got together 600 lpm.
this is what I've built with. many laughed and thought I was dumb but it's a bit fun with this quality wood where you can hardly see the growth rings, planted in the 1800s d^_^b.
then my father-in-law has his own electrical company so all the electrical work etc has been easy, have taken EVERYTHING I can have in the walls (you won't believe me if I say everything), then he's been with to clear, yes not a trailer to the dump and during the time I built had a wood boiler so I probably burned up half the house too haha:wow:.
all houses settle but you get the most settling on a newly built house since this house built in '44 has already settled, but sure the big pillar in the cinema room has settled a little bit since there's a hell of a lot lying on it.
when I did the lower floor with cinema etc I didn't think about what I would do in a few years so all the drains, water, electricity, etc you have to think your ass off.
uhhhh think I got most of it..
you can look through my story and come back...
easiest is if you highlight what I write and put it in my thread since this belongs there more now...
but if it's something else go ahead.
by the way, I came 12th in the tournament CRAP
regards
carpenter estwing
The advantage and disadvantage of renovating an existing house is that you can control the pace yourself.
This also means you have a completely different oversight of the finances. I don't know if it's my grandfather's genes or what (he was a carpenter), but I don't find it particularly difficult to build a smaller house.
The key is to take it easy. Think, think, and think some more before you start; by the time you have the saw in hand, you should have everything figured out (you won't, but oh well). Break down larger tasks into smaller ones and check, check, and double-check EVERYTHING.
Then there's always byggahus.se to find tips and advice on
With that foundation, I built a 24m2 hobby shed plus a 24 m carport on my own.
Probably a 30 m2 storage shed will be next summer.
This also means you have a completely different oversight of the finances. I don't know if it's my grandfather's genes or what (he was a carpenter), but I don't find it particularly difficult to build a smaller house.
The key is to take it easy. Think, think, and think some more before you start; by the time you have the saw in hand, you should have everything figured out (you won't, but oh well). Break down larger tasks into smaller ones and check, check, and double-check EVERYTHING.
Then there's always byggahus.se to find tips and advice on
With that foundation, I built a 24m2 hobby shed plus a 24 m carport on my own.
Probably a 30 m2 storage shed will be next summer.
A major advantage of renovating is that you can live amidst the mess while you renovate. If you build new, you have to manage double housing. I paid 2 million for a house 2km from Luleå center with an excellent location overlooking the water and now a complete renovation is underway. For this money, I could have built a nice functionalist house here outside the city.
Unfortunately, I must say it looks like crap when you squeeze new large nice houses into blocks with tiny little plots. Where the view consists of the neighbor's garage door, a tall hedge, or something else less appealing. No matter how nice they are, they lack what I have gained by instead choosing a renovation project.
The location.
So if you find an old house with potential (sounds like a realtor cliché) and an extraordinary location. Go for it.
Unfortunately, I must say it looks like crap when you squeeze new large nice houses into blocks with tiny little plots. Where the view consists of the neighbor's garage door, a tall hedge, or something else less appealing. No matter how nice they are, they lack what I have gained by instead choosing a renovation project.
The location.
So if you find an old house with potential (sounds like a realtor cliché) and an extraordinary location. Go for it.
To estwing and all of you...
estwing, thanks for all your responses, I'm quite keen on building something new, wanted to create something from scratch. What tips do you have for someone completely inexperienced but eager to try something new? I want to build most of it myself; of course, I don't know the technical parts like making the house stable and watertight, or whatever it may be, as well as the insulation methods with the different layers and such. So I guess it's wise to buy the house shell, frame erected, right?
I've looked a bit on the Villavarm website, and their frame-erected houses are around 1 million, plus some material kits. Is it really that expensive, though? They've only erected the frame and delivered some lumber; it's far from a house... How can I reduce the overall cost of everything? A regular person builds a new house for 2.5 to 3 million, so I just want to spend a maximum of 1.8 hahaha Am I being too stingy now? I know I am.
Can I ask a house supplier to manufacture a wall, then hire another company to erect the walls, and another company to fix the electricity, and another company to fix ventilation? Can I reduce the price that way? Also, I wonder if I can buy the building materials myself. For example, compare a 1 sqm drywall from Byggmax or K-Rauta or whatever building store with the building kit I purchase from a house supplier. Is there an exaggerated juicy price they've put on their building kits compared to those from Byggmax or K-Rauta, etc.?
How do you buy building materials in the smartest way, do you think, estwing, you who work in the carpentry world? Give me some internal advice that you carpenters have, hehe.
Take care, happy new year to you all.
estwing, thanks for all your responses, I'm quite keen on building something new, wanted to create something from scratch. What tips do you have for someone completely inexperienced but eager to try something new? I want to build most of it myself; of course, I don't know the technical parts like making the house stable and watertight, or whatever it may be, as well as the insulation methods with the different layers and such. So I guess it's wise to buy the house shell, frame erected, right?
I've looked a bit on the Villavarm website, and their frame-erected houses are around 1 million, plus some material kits. Is it really that expensive, though? They've only erected the frame and delivered some lumber; it's far from a house... How can I reduce the overall cost of everything? A regular person builds a new house for 2.5 to 3 million, so I just want to spend a maximum of 1.8 hahaha
Am I being too stingy now? I know I am.Can I ask a house supplier to manufacture a wall, then hire another company to erect the walls, and another company to fix the electricity, and another company to fix ventilation? Can I reduce the price that way? Also, I wonder if I can buy the building materials myself. For example, compare a 1 sqm drywall from Byggmax or K-Rauta or whatever building store with the building kit I purchase from a house supplier. Is there an exaggerated juicy price they've put on their building kits compared to those from Byggmax or K-Rauta, etc.?
How do you buy building materials in the smartest way, do you think, estwing, you who work in the carpentry world? Give me some internal advice that you carpenters have, hehe.
Take care, happy new year to you all.
you know?dvd1234 said:To estwing and all of you....
estwing, thanks for all the answers, I'm pretty set on building new, wanted to create something from scratch, what tips do you have for someone completely inexperienced but eager and willing to try something new. I want to build most of it myself, of course, I can't handle the technical parts like making the house stable, waterproof or whatever it is, and the insulation method with the different layers and such, so it's probably wise to buy the house shell, pre-erected or what??
I've checked out VillaVarms' website a bit, and their pre-erected house costs around 1 million, along with some material kits, is it really that expensive though, they've just erected the frame and delivered some timber, it's far from a house... how can you lower the total price of everything, a regular person builds a new house for 2.5 to 3 million, but I only want to spend a maximum of 1.8 hahah
can I ask a house supplier to manufacture a wall, and then hire another company to erect the walls, and another company to fix the electricity, and another company to handle the ventilation, can I lower the price this way or?? And also, I wonder if I can go and buy the building materials myself, let's say for example a 1 sqm gypsum board from Byggmax or Krauta or whatever building store it is, and compare it with the building kit I buy from a house supplier, is it an exaggerated juicy price they've put on their building kit compared to those from Byggmax or Krauta etc.?
how to buy the building materials in the smartest way do you think estwing, you who work in the carpentry world, give me some insider tips that you carpenters have hahaha,
take care, happy new year to you
take the car to Volvo and change the timing belt for 8000 kr or you can buy the belt yourself and ask a friend to change it. then it becomes cheaper...
here's the thing, companies are supposed to make their profit.
but you can let a company assemble the frame and ask others to do the work.
but there's one thing I must say:
you want to do the interior yourself and this is where the skill and finesse lie.
now it MUST be damn nice.
can't just *fix* things with caulk like everyone thinks you can shove in between gaps, etc.
the carpenter who has caulk on his pants IS not a carpenter but an amateur.
if you can't miter a baseboard without caulk then you shouldn't do anything at all.
sure, some are satisfied with poor execution but think it's nice, so...q(;^
p.maybe I'm being harsh but I'm so damn meticulous.
if you don't have the machines, knowledge as you're not a carpenter, I think you should leave most of it. sure, it's fun to tinker but it has to look good too.
just because I carry a putty knife with me every day doesn't mean I can walk into the thorax clinic at Sahlgrenska and operate...:eek:.
hope you understand my analogy well there.
shopping for materials everywhere can be good but very tiring.
even Beijer was cheaper on many things than Hornbach, etc.
then all the longer trips cost, time, effort.
you want to be done.
but look around a bit and check, there are always lure prices on certain details and more expensive on others so it usually evens out.
best regards
carpenter estwing
Without seeming negative or dampening the joy in your project. But you have a journey to make, good that you're active on the forum and asking questions, but it is as expensive as it seems, and a guy like estwing is one of a kind, i.e., they don't grow on trees. Undertaking such a project you are considering requires knowledge and your posts indicate that you have a journey ahead. But the forum is informative and good, this said with all good intentions because it is incredibly easy to bite off more than you can chew and then, if anything, it's lost money if you don’t manage to finish it. A half-finished house/renovation can cost both money and relationships in ruins.:eek:dvd1234 said:To estwing and all of you....
estwing, thanks for all the answers... I'm quite keen on building new, wanted to create something from scratch... what tips do you have for a completely inexperienced person but with the desire and will to try something new? I want to build most of it myself, of course, I can't handle the technical bits like making the house stable and watertight or whatever it is, as well as the insulation method with the different layers and such, so it's probably wise to buy the house shell, pre-framed or how??
I've looked a little bit at villavarm's website... and their pre-framed houses are about 1 million,,, plus some material kits,, is it really that expensive? they have only erected the framework and delivered some timber, it is far from a house... how can I lower the price on everything in total, a regular person builds a new house for 2.5 to 3 million, but I only want to spend a maximum of 1.8 eheheh
Can I like ask a house supplier to manufacture a wall, and then hire another company to erect the walls, and another company to fix the electricity, and another company to fix the ventilation, can I lower the price that way or?? And also, I wonder if I can buy the building materials myself, say for example a 1 sqm gypsum board from Byggmax or Krauta or whatever building store it is, and compare it with the building kit I buy from a house supplier, is it an exaggerated expensive price they have put on their building kit compared to those from Byggmax or Krauta, etc.??
How do you buy building materials in the smartest way do you think, estwing, since you work in the carpentry world, give me some inside tips that you carpenters have hehehe,,
Take care, Happy New Year to you all
Practice makes perfect, none of us were born with the knowledge of how to build houses; we have learned gradually by doing, even estwing I believe But you need a few guys (maybe there's women too but in my old world it was guys) who can help with the difficult parts, teach and answer questions, be available for daily work when needed. To continue with the car analogy, changing a timing belt wasn't the first thing I did on my first car, but with persistence and friends' help, I have of course learned to change timing belts and crankshaft bearings and everything else too. I became an amateur house builder with the help of my father and father-in-law at first, when you know enough, you can also get help by asking at the building supply store or here on the forum.
But I advise against starting a house build without knowledge and without help; buy a decent house that you can practice in/on without stress instead. Unless you have a couple of "guys" around you.
But you need a few guys (maybe there's women too but in my old world it was guys) who can help with the difficult parts, teach and answer questions, be available for daily work when needed. To continue with the car analogy, changing a timing belt wasn't the first thing I did on my first car, but with persistence and friends' help, I have of course learned to change timing belts and crankshaft bearings and everything else too. I became an amateur house builder with the help of my father and father-in-law at first, when you know enough, you can also get help by asking at the building supply store or here on the forum. But I advise against starting a house build without knowledge and without help; buy a decent house that you can practice in/on without stress instead. Unless you have a couple of "guys" around you.
Build yourself or renovate something old. Well, if I had to choose, I would choose to build new every time. Unfortunately, the reality is that you may not have the opportunity to build new (no plots available, plots are too small, no good locations on available plots, etc.) so you have to buy something old and then renovate to find the plot with the right location....
Then you have 2 choices! Tear everything down and build new or renovate. Not many can afford to tear down and build new considering you've paid for the house that is being torn down, so in principle, it’s only renovation that applies. And this is when you wish you had built new instead. Because if you're going to live in the house while renovating, everything has to work: water, electricity, heating, floors, as well as ceilings and walls. So it's difficult to tear out everything inside and just have a shell to work from.
And then everything becomes more troublesome and you have to consider so many different things. Say you want to install underfloor heating throughout the ground floor, but how do you solve that if you can't tear up all the floors at once and lay down all the pipes directly? Then you have to do it room by room and at the same time account for the pipes needing to pass through other rooms along the way, etc....
I have personally renovated the laundry room and moved the washing machine and water heater around while the floor is being broken up and you need to apply self-leveling compound and lay sealing layers and tiles... It works but becomes more cumbersome, takes longer, and you have to do the job in more stages than if you could have torn out everything.
Most things, however, you can solve yourself as long as you are a bit handy and can seek information; preferably seek information from several different places because you'll get almost as many solutions as people you ask, and then you have to take the solution you believe in the most. But it's possible, both to renovate and to build new yourself without being a carpenter, but it takes longer and as mentioned earlier, the result might not be entirely perfect, but it might be worth the money you save...
Then you have 2 choices! Tear everything down and build new or renovate. Not many can afford to tear down and build new considering you've paid for the house that is being torn down, so in principle, it’s only renovation that applies. And this is when you wish you had built new instead. Because if you're going to live in the house while renovating, everything has to work: water, electricity, heating, floors, as well as ceilings and walls. So it's difficult to tear out everything inside and just have a shell to work from.
And then everything becomes more troublesome and you have to consider so many different things. Say you want to install underfloor heating throughout the ground floor, but how do you solve that if you can't tear up all the floors at once and lay down all the pipes directly? Then you have to do it room by room and at the same time account for the pipes needing to pass through other rooms along the way, etc....
I have personally renovated the laundry room and moved the washing machine and water heater around while the floor is being broken up and you need to apply self-leveling compound and lay sealing layers and tiles... It works but becomes more cumbersome, takes longer, and you have to do the job in more stages than if you could have torn out everything.
Most things, however, you can solve yourself as long as you are a bit handy and can seek information; preferably seek information from several different places because you'll get almost as many solutions as people you ask, and then you have to take the solution you believe in the most. But it's possible, both to renovate and to build new yourself without being a carpenter, but it takes longer and as mentioned earlier, the result might not be entirely perfect, but it might be worth the money you save...
hello to all of you??? funny that you comment,.d^_^b
you must all be homeowners, ehehe.. .... many of you here mentioned finding the perfect location,,, I wonder how easy it is to find those central plots in the center or whatever it is, and those perfect places,, should you wait forever???,, my brother who's buying a house, he's been looking at houses for 1 year, almost 2 years now, I thought he was a bit slow, either it's not a good location or the house is too ugly, or the house is damaged in some way, , ehehhe, I thought it was difficult that way, that's why I'm considering building a whole new one myself,,
by the way, if you're going to build new, what is it you need to know or have knowledge of to manage that, everyone talks about knowledge,,, it's not like all of you who have commented or have had a house know everything in detail, is it??, or is it only Estwing who has that enormous experience??, but if I knew everything to be able to build a new house, then I'd start a house company instead and deliver cheap houses to all of you eheheh,
may I ask you all, if I'm going to build everything inside, what are the hardest parts???, the ones I really need to hire an expert for,, apart from electricity, water, sewage????, the rest must be quite simple, room layout, doors, and stuff, painting,,
can someone list a small list of areas where you must or many must hire an expert for help, and which tasks are easy that most should be able to handle if they want,,
as I said, I'm very picky with appearance, so I can't stand to have ugly things eehehehd^_^b that's why I'm sticking to building new rather than renovating,
but talk on,, fun to hear reasoning,,,
by the way, if you're going to buy a used house, what things should you consider besides the location and the condition of the house??
best regards
you must all be homeowners, ehehe.. .... many of you here mentioned finding the perfect location,,, I wonder how easy it is to find those central plots in the center or whatever it is, and those perfect places,, should you wait forever???,, my brother who's buying a house, he's been looking at houses for 1 year, almost 2 years now, I thought he was a bit slow, either it's not a good location or the house is too ugly, or the house is damaged in some way, , ehehhe, I thought it was difficult that way, that's why I'm considering building a whole new one myself,,
by the way, if you're going to build new, what is it you need to know or have knowledge of to manage that, everyone talks about knowledge,,, it's not like all of you who have commented or have had a house know everything in detail, is it??, or is it only Estwing who has that enormous experience??, but if I knew everything to be able to build a new house, then I'd start a house company instead and deliver cheap houses to all of you eheheh,
may I ask you all, if I'm going to build everything inside, what are the hardest parts???, the ones I really need to hire an expert for,, apart from electricity, water, sewage????, the rest must be quite simple, room layout, doors, and stuff, painting,,
can someone list a small list of areas where you must or many must hire an expert for help, and which tasks are easy that most should be able to handle if they want,,
as I said, I'm very picky with appearance, so I can't stand to have ugly things eehehehd^_^b that's why I'm sticking to building new rather than renovating,
but talk on,, fun to hear reasoning,,,
by the way, if you're going to buy a used house, what things should you consider besides the location and the condition of the house??
best regards
I think that most people hit a wall, which is why the TV show "Arga Snickaren" started.Gladh said:
Why do people hit a wall????:eek:
Well, they buy their first house maybe.
Live in it for a week, then tear everything down, without thinking.
Personally, I lived in the house for 5 years before the real work began.
I remodeled the basement first since water and sewage come there, simple thinking.
Then I took the upper floor since I can take everything up and make connections to the entrance floor.
And lastly, the entrance floor.
I can say that I was itching to tear out the kitchen, haven't had a dishwasher for 10 years, an old Electrolux 700mm stove, etc., etc.
BUT the kitchen was last.
And I was very pleased with this because you change your mind a hundred times, and you need to live in the house and really feel it out.
The home theater was redesigned about 10 times during the demolition process, etc.
So your thinking Gladh of tearing everything out and pressing on while living doesn't work unfortunately, and you will end up on the TV show soon.
Sure, I would have liked to have a new build without a doubt, but as someone wrote, the location, etc., doesn’t have those plots.
We have a great location now.
Regards,
snickar estwing
You might want to read again, because that's what I wish one could do, but if you're going to live there meanwhile it doesn't work so well. Instead, you have to take it room by room and step by step... and as mentioned, it takes longer and is more cumbersome, and that's why it's better to build completely new than to renovate something old if you plan to live in the house meanwhile.
Interesting thread.
I searched for a house for a long time but everything was too expensive. The houses in the area where I was searching cost at least 2.5 million in good condition, and with a large plot, even more. Old houses with good locations (sun and views, etc.) sometimes cost much more than newly built ones. I got the opportunity to buy an old farm with a SUPER LOCATION but where the house was quite rundown for a sum I felt I could afford (unfortunately not cheap).
I ended up calling in carpenters for quotes. There were, first of all, few who even wanted to take on the project. Old house and nothing was straight. It requires skills that many carpenters unfortunately can't meet. After several contacts with different builders and carpenters, many were of the opinion that I should tear it down. However, the price was too high to just demolish and have what I bought as a "plot" for a new house. One carpenter said, "if you want to live here, you need to spend a million or more." He was right. It will have cost me a million when it's done (I still have a bit left to do, like another bathroom, etc.). He meant that it would cost me LESS to demolish the house and build a new one there instead. Additionally, it would be better. Despite my lack of knowledge, I then realized that it was hardly an absolute truth. A demolition is not free. Building permits and all regulatory requirements and fees would have been significant, and a similar house in the same style and size as what I have would have easily exceeded 2.5 million just to erect. The foundation would also add to that cost. If I then have to spend between 800 and a million on my house in addition to what I paid for the property, it is still a better deal for ME, under one condition. That I can do most of the work myself. Without the latter, one can COMPLETELY RULE OUT the opportunities for a reasonable cost.
I knew NOTHING when I started. I have learned along the way. Had some people to ask and maybe a hand from a friend with really heavy things, but otherwise, I have had to find my way on my own. The house remains. Some things I would do differently today if I were to do them again, but these are learning experiences, and they don't go away; you can revisit them when the opportunity arises and the interest can be summoned.
One thing to consider is that it is hard to compare old houses that are renovated to new houses. An old renovated house is never as energy-efficient, tight, or loaded with modern conveniences as a new one. Then you can ask yourself if you want to live in a new house that is so airtight that you have to open a window at the back to be able to close the front door? Old houses, even if renovated, have their drawbacks in many aspects but also advantages over new houses. Old houses have a charm that a new house can never match, but it is probably a matter of taste and preference.
So, how should "one" do it then? Renovate a dilapidated house (as I did) or build new?
I renovated and will have to do so for a long time to come. The house will be worth much more, but since I want to live here, I'm not going to sell, and therefore what it's "worth" is completely irrelevant. What I have to sacrifice is the TIME used. If I had been forced to bring in help for every step in the process, I would NEVER have been able to afford it. Period. If you enjoy playing golf, sailing, playing chess, or just relaxing and daydreaming all day, you shouldn't renovate. Renovation is a commitment that is hard to comprehend the extent of; you have to forgo much, primarily in time. If you can't handle this or feel the SPARK for the house/project, then you are better off BORROWING what you can from the bank, asks an expert who can and wants to, build the house you can afford in a place that suits sufficiently well, and enjoy it and the time you have left for other things. Maybe it's smarter to spend more time getting a well-paid job that you can work at while someone builds the house for you? Priorities can appear different, and everyone has to make their own choices.
Good luck, whatever you do...
I searched for a house for a long time but everything was too expensive. The houses in the area where I was searching cost at least 2.5 million in good condition, and with a large plot, even more. Old houses with good locations (sun and views, etc.) sometimes cost much more than newly built ones. I got the opportunity to buy an old farm with a SUPER LOCATION but where the house was quite rundown for a sum I felt I could afford (unfortunately not cheap).
I ended up calling in carpenters for quotes. There were, first of all, few who even wanted to take on the project. Old house and nothing was straight. It requires skills that many carpenters unfortunately can't meet. After several contacts with different builders and carpenters, many were of the opinion that I should tear it down. However, the price was too high to just demolish and have what I bought as a "plot" for a new house. One carpenter said, "if you want to live here, you need to spend a million or more." He was right. It will have cost me a million when it's done (I still have a bit left to do, like another bathroom, etc.). He meant that it would cost me LESS to demolish the house and build a new one there instead. Additionally, it would be better. Despite my lack of knowledge, I then realized that it was hardly an absolute truth. A demolition is not free. Building permits and all regulatory requirements and fees would have been significant, and a similar house in the same style and size as what I have would have easily exceeded 2.5 million just to erect. The foundation would also add to that cost. If I then have to spend between 800 and a million on my house in addition to what I paid for the property, it is still a better deal for ME, under one condition. That I can do most of the work myself. Without the latter, one can COMPLETELY RULE OUT the opportunities for a reasonable cost.
I knew NOTHING when I started. I have learned along the way. Had some people to ask and maybe a hand from a friend with really heavy things, but otherwise, I have had to find my way on my own. The house remains. Some things I would do differently today if I were to do them again, but these are learning experiences, and they don't go away; you can revisit them when the opportunity arises and the interest can be summoned.
One thing to consider is that it is hard to compare old houses that are renovated to new houses. An old renovated house is never as energy-efficient, tight, or loaded with modern conveniences as a new one. Then you can ask yourself if you want to live in a new house that is so airtight that you have to open a window at the back to be able to close the front door?
Old houses, even if renovated, have their drawbacks in many aspects but also advantages over new houses. Old houses have a charm that a new house can never match, but it is probably a matter of taste and preference.So, how should "one" do it then? Renovate a dilapidated house (as I did) or build new?
I renovated and will have to do so for a long time to come. The house will be worth much more, but since I want to live here, I'm not going to sell, and therefore what it's "worth" is completely irrelevant. What I have to sacrifice is the TIME used. If I had been forced to bring in help for every step in the process, I would NEVER have been able to afford it. Period. If you enjoy playing golf, sailing, playing chess, or just relaxing and daydreaming all day, you shouldn't renovate. Renovation is a commitment that is hard to comprehend the extent of; you have to forgo much, primarily in time. If you can't handle this or feel the SPARK for the house/project, then you are better off BORROWING what you can from the bank, asks an expert who can and wants to, build the house you can afford in a place that suits sufficiently well, and enjoy it and the time you have left for other things. Maybe it's smarter to spend more time getting a well-paid job that you can work at while someone builds the house for you? Priorities can appear different, and everyone has to make their own choices.
Good luck, whatever you do...
Fun thread—I’m coming in a little late because I’ve been on “Christmas break” from byggahus.se.
I live in an older house. This summer, it will be five years since we moved in. I started renovating after three months, still working on it, and will continue to do so for several more years.
I don’t regret that choice but have become more and more cautious about recommending it to others. In particular, I’m skeptical about taking the renovation route just for economic reasons. Large renovations cost so much in time or money or both.
It’s one thing if you, like me, love old houses. If you want just such a house, but fresh, then renovating is the natural choice. But you, dvd1234, write that you want it modern, which makes me hesitant. There’s an old German saying that a potato can never become a pineapple—just as little can an old house become a new one. With work, it can become as nice and fresh as possible, but it will never be new or modern. I’m skeptical about buying a house if you don’t fundamentally like the type and layout—you can make changes, of course, but if you start talking about tearing everything out, including all the interior walls and just keeping the shell, then you might wonder if you’ve bought the right house. Maybe you should have waited until you found something a little closer to what you want. After all, there’s a difference in changing 50 percent versus 100.
If you’re going to embark on a major renovation, there’s definitely much to gain by doing a lot yourself, even though the material still costs and most of us have to pay quite a bit for electricians and plumbers as well. I especially want to emphasize what Mats_O mentioned about setting your own pace. The total cost doesn’t necessarily become much smaller because of it, but there’s strength in spreading out the expenses, which naturally happens since you can’t work as fast as possible. In my case, after the initial kitchen project (which you could say was partially financed by borrowing since we used some of the excess from our old place instead of increasing the down payment and thereby reducing the loan), I’ve been able to handle costs as they come and haven’t needed to borrow more. If things get tighter financially, I can simply slow down the renovation pace. You could say we’re significantly reducing our financial risk exposure; had we immediately borrowed to contract out the entire renovation, it might be completed now but we would be stuck with interest and repayments whether we wanted it or not.
But, as I said, it requires having the spark. If I had been in this situation—years of renovation behind me and years more ahead—and didn’t enjoy the renovation work itself, what darkness it would have been! Moreover, unless you’re single, it’s not enough to be excited about it yourself. We were probably a bit too eager to buy the house and get started—it has turned out that my wife hadn’t really realized how it could be. We’ve probably managed to handle it well enough not to become another divorce case due to prolonged renovation, but not everyone is so lucky.
Finally, I sympathize with Estwing’s love for well-done work but at the same time feel the bar is set a bit too high there. Sure, it would be fun if I managed entirely without soft sealant, but what’s the alternative? I don’t know if I’ve encountered particularly bad examples, but in most new constructions I’ve seen, there have been factory-painted moldings that the pros have mitered somewhat nicely and nailed in with nail guns, and how charming is that? It’s probably more due to tight construction budgets than the carpenters’ skill, but still, I think my own molding work with spackle-covered nail heads and final painting on-site looks much more solid, even if it has used some latex caulk here and there.
I live in an older house. This summer, it will be five years since we moved in. I started renovating after three months, still working on it, and will continue to do so for several more years.
I don’t regret that choice but have become more and more cautious about recommending it to others. In particular, I’m skeptical about taking the renovation route just for economic reasons. Large renovations cost so much in time or money or both.
It’s one thing if you, like me, love old houses. If you want just such a house, but fresh, then renovating is the natural choice. But you, dvd1234, write that you want it modern, which makes me hesitant. There’s an old German saying that a potato can never become a pineapple—just as little can an old house become a new one. With work, it can become as nice and fresh as possible, but it will never be new or modern. I’m skeptical about buying a house if you don’t fundamentally like the type and layout—you can make changes, of course, but if you start talking about tearing everything out, including all the interior walls and just keeping the shell, then you might wonder if you’ve bought the right house. Maybe you should have waited until you found something a little closer to what you want. After all, there’s a difference in changing 50 percent versus 100.
If you’re going to embark on a major renovation, there’s definitely much to gain by doing a lot yourself, even though the material still costs and most of us have to pay quite a bit for electricians and plumbers as well. I especially want to emphasize what Mats_O mentioned about setting your own pace. The total cost doesn’t necessarily become much smaller because of it, but there’s strength in spreading out the expenses, which naturally happens since you can’t work as fast as possible. In my case, after the initial kitchen project (which you could say was partially financed by borrowing since we used some of the excess from our old place instead of increasing the down payment and thereby reducing the loan), I’ve been able to handle costs as they come and haven’t needed to borrow more. If things get tighter financially, I can simply slow down the renovation pace. You could say we’re significantly reducing our financial risk exposure; had we immediately borrowed to contract out the entire renovation, it might be completed now but we would be stuck with interest and repayments whether we wanted it or not.
But, as I said, it requires having the spark. If I had been in this situation—years of renovation behind me and years more ahead—and didn’t enjoy the renovation work itself, what darkness it would have been! Moreover, unless you’re single, it’s not enough to be excited about it yourself. We were probably a bit too eager to buy the house and get started—it has turned out that my wife hadn’t really realized how it could be. We’ve probably managed to handle it well enough not to become another divorce case due to prolonged renovation, but not everyone is so lucky.
Finally, I sympathize with Estwing’s love for well-done work but at the same time feel the bar is set a bit too high there. Sure, it would be fun if I managed entirely without soft sealant, but what’s the alternative? I don’t know if I’ve encountered particularly bad examples, but in most new constructions I’ve seen, there have been factory-painted moldings that the pros have mitered somewhat nicely and nailed in with nail guns, and how charming is that? It’s probably more due to tight construction budgets than the carpenters’ skill, but still, I think my own molding work with spackle-covered nail heads and final painting on-site looks much more solid, even if it has used some latex caulk here and there.
I'm about to settle into a house with quite a few renovation needs. And I'm longing for it. I realize, of course, that it will take time, it will be tough, and there will be times when I get tired of it. But I also know that the need for renovation is not greater than what we make it. I would never buy a total project because that would be biting off more than I can chew.
I believe, as someone has already said, that for someone who enjoys tinkering on their own, finds satisfaction in having done something themselves, and doesn't have other time-consuming hobbies, it's definitely possible to renovate on your own.
I also agree with Farzan that if you buy a house and then make it completely different, you might want to consider if it was really the house you wanted. As estwing said, you kind of violate a house by making such drastic changes as he did. I personally want to try to get back to what the original builder envisioned. Yes, not with an outhouse and unfinished attic, of course. But you get it.
I believe, as someone has already said, that for someone who enjoys tinkering on their own, finds satisfaction in having done something themselves, and doesn't have other time-consuming hobbies, it's definitely possible to renovate on your own.
I also agree with Farzan that if you buy a house and then make it completely different, you might want to consider if it was really the house you wanted. As estwing said, you kind of violate a house by making such drastic changes as he did.
I personally want to try to get back to what the original builder envisioned. Yes, not with an outhouse and unfinished attic, of course. But you get it.