Should one buy an old house and renovate everything or build a new house?
what if the place is somewhere you want to live then?EAQ17 said:
and it's central?
and, get me that plot then.
nope, there are none, so your theory and saying should have been: money time knowledge!
so, can you afford new?
can you build yourself?
do you have the time to renovate?
can you tell me what is wrong with what I have done?
best regards,
estwing
Farzan. According to SCB, the average salary for men in 2008 was 36,100 kr and for women 28,200 kr. If you earn well above average as you write, I would not exactly say that you have bad salaries. Rather, I feel that we earn very poorly in comparison, and if you're complaining, how are we supposed to survive? 
Agree with Estwing there - I can't figure out how one can unilaterally recommend BUY NEW while simultaneously saying that "location, location, location" is crucial. Here in Stockholm, what most people seem to think is the best location is precisely where there are guaranteed to be no new construction plots except for a few small and extremely expensive subdivisions.
I also question "You NEVER get everything you want by buying an old house." Isn't that a matter of taste? As the catalog houses look now, at least my taste is more easily satisfied with an old house (unless you can afford a custom-designed, fully custom build). I like, for example, having a basement with a lot of storage and secondary spaces - it's expensive to build new but almost free with an old house, since many, quite rightly, mostly see basements as problematic.
Can't we say something like this:
If you absolutely CANNOT/will not do things yourself - depending on what you prefer the most (I mean both "location" and type of house), buy old and let it be renovated or build new, it would probably even out economically. Pay if you can and be happy.
If you KNOW you can and want to do it yourself - renovate old or build new depending on taste as above. Probably still evens out, just a bit cheaper.
If you THINK you can and want to - buy old and renovate yourself, so you have time to try and if you get tired of it, you can change your mind and either sell or hire out what's left.
But more specifically to dvd1234 - you wondered about how much one can borrow and so - it's hard to say in general. Go to a bank and let them do a calculation on how much you could borrow, it usually doesn't require you to have a specific property in mind, just enough that you say you're looking at houses. Then carefully examine how they've calculated. Is there really room for the kind of vacations you usually want, or your hobbies, nights out, or whatever you usually spend money on? That way, you can get an idea of what you can borrow and how it would affect your lifestyle.
I also question "You NEVER get everything you want by buying an old house." Isn't that a matter of taste? As the catalog houses look now, at least my taste is more easily satisfied with an old house (unless you can afford a custom-designed, fully custom build). I like, for example, having a basement with a lot of storage and secondary spaces - it's expensive to build new but almost free with an old house, since many, quite rightly, mostly see basements as problematic.
Can't we say something like this:
If you absolutely CANNOT/will not do things yourself - depending on what you prefer the most (I mean both "location" and type of house), buy old and let it be renovated or build new, it would probably even out economically. Pay if you can and be happy.
If you KNOW you can and want to do it yourself - renovate old or build new depending on taste as above. Probably still evens out, just a bit cheaper.
If you THINK you can and want to - buy old and renovate yourself, so you have time to try and if you get tired of it, you can change your mind and either sell or hire out what's left.
But more specifically to dvd1234 - you wondered about how much one can borrow and so - it's hard to say in general. Go to a bank and let them do a calculation on how much you could borrow, it usually doesn't require you to have a specific property in mind, just enough that you say you're looking at houses. Then carefully examine how they've calculated. Is there really room for the kind of vacations you usually want, or your hobbies, nights out, or whatever you usually spend money on? That way, you can get an idea of what you can borrow and how it would affect your lifestyle.
I'm not complaining at the moment. However, when we moved in five years ago, my wife earned well below average and four children also involve expenses well above average. Moreover, I wasn't complaining then either - we could have chosen a cheaper place to live further out of town.cederbusch said:Farzan. According to SCB, the average salary for men in 2008 was 36,100 SEK and for women 28,200 SEK. If you earn well above average as you write, I wouldn't directly say you have bad salaries. I rather feel that we earn very poorly in comparison, and if you're complaining, how are we supposed to survive?
I bought a "begnat" myself. A summer cottage expanded by 80m2.
It was really the location that was decisive. Although it's thirty kilometers outside the city, it's a 35-minute drive, and I'm at work, so it's not too bad. The sea is 50 meters from the property line, and a large plot with the forest right next to it suits me perfectly.
It was really the location that was decisive. Although it's thirty kilometers outside the city, it's a 35-minute drive, and I'm at work, so it's not too bad. The sea is 50 meters from the property line, and a large plot with the forest right next to it suits me perfectly.
I agree with estwing that everything seems (well, except what flooring yrrol should have in the kitchen ) very important to settle in and not start renovating immediately, but it's easy to remedy. Start by draining the foundation again, applying platon or something else, lay new stormwater and water/sewage, then in the best case, the garden is a flat slope of clay, then you can fix some lawn and paving. Next, put on a new roof and possibly add insulation to the attic/roof. By then, a couple of years will have passed, and you'll start figuring out how you want it indoors AND you've done the most important thing, which is ensuring that the house keeps the moisture out and the warmth in. Another way is to repeatedly change houses; you learn something in each home that you can implement in the next one. After 2 houses and 1 apartment, we're beginning to understand how we want to live.
) very important to settle in and not start renovating immediately, but it's easy to remedy. Start by draining the foundation again, applying platon or something else, lay new stormwater and water/sewage, then in the best case, the garden is a flat slope of clay, then you can fix some lawn and paving. Next, put on a new roof and possibly add insulation to the attic/roof. By then, a couple of years will have passed, and you'll start figuring out how you want it indoors AND you've done the most important thing, which is ensuring that the house keeps the moisture out and the warmth in. Another way is to repeatedly change houses; you learn something in each home that you can implement in the next one. After 2 houses and 1 apartment, we're beginning to understand how we want to live. hello everyone again ehehe..
to jan-Å and all of you,,,
you who describe your house deal going in with a decent profit, hihihih I'm a bit curious here on this bit, what is considered profit for you and within what intervals is that profit, and that decent profit,, I hope it's not too private financial details.. but an example here, if you buy a house for 800 kkr and invest 200 kkr in renovation, then the house's value is up to 1 million then, and you manage to sell for 1.4 million or something like that for it to be profit, or is it enough that you sell it for 1.1 million and you think it's decent profit, I want to know in what price range it is considered to be profit..
I have no experience in the housing market, I know that location is important, but how do you value a house, I've been browsing hemnet.se recently looking at houses, and the price tag says it's either cheap or expensive, so a house at about 1.7 million and the pictures of the house look reasonably okay or a bit nice, does it mean the house is worth that much or, or does the price mostly depend on the location of the plot??, shouldn't the condition of the house also be a factor or, same thing with a house around 1.2 million, how do I know that the house really falls within the interval between 1 to 1.2 million, ??? what if the house is actually only worth 700 kkr, then you have lost 300 completely stupidly, the house is about 30 to 60 years old so it's probably very difficult to assess how good the house really is or isn't it, same with their equipment, which boiler, and heating technology, they are old as well, how can you assess their condition and how do you compare such things, with today's technology and be able to value it from there??, because I am under 30 years old, and unlike those over 60, they have lived so long that they are familiar with all the old equipment and technology so they have some understanding of it, but I only know the current technology, so how do you assess it,,
regards dvd
to jan-Å and all of you,,,
you who describe your house deal going in with a decent profit, hihihih I'm a bit curious here on this bit, what is considered profit for you and within what intervals is that profit, and that decent profit,, I hope it's not too private financial details.. but an example here, if you buy a house for 800 kkr and invest 200 kkr in renovation, then the house's value is up to 1 million then, and you manage to sell for 1.4 million or something like that for it to be profit, or is it enough that you sell it for 1.1 million and you think it's decent profit, I want to know in what price range it is considered to be profit..
I have no experience in the housing market, I know that location is important, but how do you value a house, I've been browsing hemnet.se recently looking at houses, and the price tag says it's either cheap or expensive, so a house at about 1.7 million and the pictures of the house look reasonably okay or a bit nice, does it mean the house is worth that much or, or does the price mostly depend on the location of the plot??, shouldn't the condition of the house also be a factor or, same thing with a house around 1.2 million, how do I know that the house really falls within the interval between 1 to 1.2 million, ??? what if the house is actually only worth 700 kkr, then you have lost 300 completely stupidly, the house is about 30 to 60 years old so it's probably very difficult to assess how good the house really is or isn't it, same with their equipment, which boiler, and heating technology, they are old as well, how can you assess their condition and how do you compare such things, with today's technology and be able to value it from there??, because I am under 30 years old, and unlike those over 60, they have lived so long that they are familiar with all the old equipment and technology so they have some understanding of it, but I only know the current technology, so how do you assess it,,
regards dvd
A substantial profit for me is 200-500k more than what I paid, including renovation. We've had some luck since the first house was built with frame construction while my father-in-law owned a forest and his brother owned a sawmill/building supplies store 😎. We invested a significant amount of our own time and physical labor both on the house and by cutting timber that was exchanged for lumber.
Then we bought in Uppsala when it was cheapest in '94-'95 and sold in '99 to buy a condo that increased a lot in the right areas here in the city from '99 until we sold in '02.
Our current house was a renovation project that has increased in value three times as much as we invested in the renovation, which would be about double the price of what we paid, though you can't be entirely sure until you actually sell of course 😮.
I never calculate hourly pay for myself or my wife; this is our joint hobby in the budget and is not considered an expense 😁.
You also have to live and buy/sell in the right place; in Uppsala, you can make a profit on houses just like in all metropolitan areas. About a month ago, there was a thread about heating systems where the original poster bought a house in Norrbotten for 190,000 that would have cost 3-5 million here, depending on which area the house was located. Of course, you can earn 200-300,000 on such a house here, but in Norrbotten, you might not make any profit at all.
Then we bought in Uppsala when it was cheapest in '94-'95 and sold in '99 to buy a condo that increased a lot in the right areas here in the city from '99 until we sold in '02.
Our current house was a renovation project that has increased in value three times as much as we invested in the renovation, which would be about double the price of what we paid, though you can't be entirely sure until you actually sell of course 😮.
I never calculate hourly pay for myself or my wife; this is our joint hobby in the budget and is not considered an expense 😁.
You also have to live and buy/sell in the right place; in Uppsala, you can make a profit on houses just like in all metropolitan areas. About a month ago, there was a thread about heating systems where the original poster bought a house in Norrbotten for 190,000 that would have cost 3-5 million here, depending on which area the house was located. Of course, you can earn 200-300,000 on such a house here, but in Norrbotten, you might not make any profit at all.
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jan-Å,, damn you’re awesome eheheh , totally awesome I must say,, ,,,
but the houses you sold, and made a profit from, is it because when you bought the house the housing market was down and the price dropped, and when you sold the house it was during the period when the housing market rose or??, or is it because of your renovations that make the house better and nicer and thus worth more??, or is it entirely due to the location and the time period whether the housing market is down or up.???,,, because if I were to do the same thing as you do, buy an old house, renovate it super nicely, it might happen that I hardly make much of a profit when I sell it because it's located in a small town, right??? does my theory hold??
buying cheap houses, renovating them, selling them after a few years and making a profit only applies in the metropolitan region where demand is high, right, or houses??? while in a moderate-sized town there's hardly any profit at all, maybe max 100k eheheh??
by the way, isn't there tax on the profits you make on the housing market???.,,,,.
if I were to presumably buy an old house in a big city like you, but without renovating it, and sell it in a few years, is there any chance I would make a lot of profit as well or??, or hardly any,, just because I didn’t renovate...d^_^b
by the way, you who built the first house in on-site construction,,, how did you manage that yourself??, you're not a carpenter, or you don’t work directly with house building in your job, right??..
how do you succeed, how do you manage construction, the technique, to make it tight, with different layers and levels, so the house is well insulated, and before long it's stable so it doesn’t collapse,,,, just the technical part,, how do you succeed, because today’s houses or in the 90’s the house technology was quite modern and surely, and the development has advanced or?, because it’s not about building a hut with a roof and four walls, right??, it should have the technical part, or construction technique,, how do you manage to make the house last over time, that it became a house at all,,...
I can understand that many who work in construction build their own house in on-site construction, but then they have experience with that, you don’t, right??
regards, take care
, totally awesome I must say,, ,,,but the houses you sold, and made a profit from, is it because when you bought the house the housing market was down and the price dropped, and when you sold the house it was during the period when the housing market rose or??, or is it because of your renovations that make the house better and nicer and thus worth more??, or is it entirely due to the location and the time period whether the housing market is down or up.???,,, because if I were to do the same thing as you do, buy an old house, renovate it super nicely, it might happen that I hardly make much of a profit when I sell it because it's located in a small town, right??? does my theory hold??
buying cheap houses, renovating them, selling them after a few years and making a profit only applies in the metropolitan region where demand is high, right, or houses??? while in a moderate-sized town there's hardly any profit at all, maybe max 100k eheheh??
by the way, isn't there tax on the profits you make on the housing market???.,,,,.
if I were to presumably buy an old house in a big city like you, but without renovating it, and sell it in a few years, is there any chance I would make a lot of profit as well or??, or hardly any,, just because I didn’t renovate...d^_^b
by the way, you who built the first house in on-site construction,,, how did you manage that yourself??, you're not a carpenter, or you don’t work directly with house building in your job, right??..
how do you succeed, how do you manage construction, the technique, to make it tight, with different layers and levels, so the house is well insulated, and before long it's stable so it doesn’t collapse,,,, just the technical part,, how do you succeed, because today’s houses or in the 90’s the house technology was quite modern and surely, and the development has advanced or?, because it’s not about building a hut with a roof and four walls, right??, it should have the technical part, or construction technique,, how do you manage to make the house last over time, that it became a house at all,,...
I can understand that many who work in construction build their own house in on-site construction, but then they have experience with that, you don’t, right??
regards, take care
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By the way, you who built the first house with loose materials, how did you manage it yourself?? You're not a carpenter, or directly involved in house building in your job are you??
No, I'm actually a nurse :blushing: but I've been working as a manager for quite a few years. I was born handy as hell but I had my father-in-law as the responsible one for the first house, he and my own father taught me how to do it well enough so that I could then learn on my own by asking those who know better. AND even though it may not seem so, I do actually hire craftsmen sometimes too
The fact that we've managed to make profits on our real estate deals :wow: is a combination of buying/selling at the right time mainly, but also because we've ALWAYS chosen the timing of our deals ourselves; we've never been forced to sell. The first house was a very special house in a smaller town where it wasn't obvious that one could make big money on such deals; our great renovation was the foundation for the profit there. Look at estwing's project, the same applies there, that house can be sold no matter where it is d^_^b
I think it's fun to work on houses, that's probably a prerequisite for it to turn out really well; maybe that's why some craftsmen do poor jobs — they became craftsmen to get a job, not because they think it's fun to be crafting. We had a carpenter who helped us last year who really enjoyed his job and he was great, super skilled and never a problem with anything, rather we talked about it, agreed on what and how and what it cost, and then he just did it d^_^b
I have a great time at my job; I can't understand how anyone can go to a job they don't enjoy every day, but that's probably a completely different thread of course
No, I'm actually a nurse :blushing: but I've been working as a manager for quite a few years. I was born handy as hell
but I had my father-in-law as the responsible one for the first house, he and my own father taught me how to do it well enough so that I could then learn on my own by asking those who know better. AND even though it may not seem so, I do actually hire craftsmen sometimes too The fact that we've managed to make profits on our real estate deals :wow: is a combination of buying/selling at the right time mainly, but also because we've ALWAYS chosen the timing of our deals ourselves; we've never been forced to sell. The first house was a very special house in a smaller town where it wasn't obvious that one could make big money on such deals; our great renovation was the foundation for the profit there. Look at estwing's project, the same applies there, that house can be sold no matter where it is d^_^b
I think it's fun to work on houses, that's probably a prerequisite for it to turn out really well; maybe that's why some craftsmen do poor jobs — they became craftsmen to get a job, not because they think it's fun to be crafting. We had a carpenter who helped us last year who really enjoyed his job and he was great, super skilled and never a problem with anything, rather we talked about it, agreed on what and how and what it cost, and then he just did it d^_^b
I have a great time at my job; I can't understand how anyone can go to a job they don't enjoy every day, but that's probably a completely different thread of course
hello everyone,,,
I've noticed that my thread is becoming pretty popular here eheh,, so I've come up with new questions to keep the thread going further ehehe
I have a pondering, or rather an attempt to compare between newly built houses and used houses,,, as everyone knows, used houses are often older than the 1990s,,, and in today's year 2010 many house manufacturers talk about their houses as energy-efficient, and passive houses etc., but if we disregard those passive houses and extremely energy-efficient houses, which surely cost an arm and a leg,,
I'm talking about a completely normal newly built house, a standard that an average citizen can afford to build, the type of house that most house suppliers build, and it's the year 2010 now with today's technology, and today's building technology, and all the latest appliances, and home electronics etc., and today's insulated walls, roof, windows, etc., a completely normal single-family home,
if we compare it with the used houses with the same living area, which are at least older than the 1990s, is there much to save on these newly built houses in 2010 when it comes to operating costs (electricity, heating etc.),,
how many thousands do you save per year approximately or more accurately if we calculate per month if anyone has a price estimate,,
I'm referring to similar houses in the same residential area, with the same living area and single-story houses for both houses...
is it then worth spending those ridiculously expensive amounts just for the latest technology and reducing operating costs, , do you get the invested money back over time???
to estwing and Jan-Å,, you who are both builders and have owned many houses, as well as have good experience in the field., do you have any good insights on this issue,,??
estwing if I may ask how much do you pay per month in operating costs for your large house,, if it's not too personal financially,,, and if a similar large house were built in 2010 what would it cost in operating per month do you think,,
kind regards
I've noticed that my thread is becoming pretty popular here eheh,, so I've come up with new questions to keep the thread going further ehehe
I have a pondering, or rather an attempt to compare between newly built houses and used houses,,, as everyone knows, used houses are often older than the 1990s,,, and in today's year 2010 many house manufacturers talk about their houses as energy-efficient, and passive houses etc., but if we disregard those passive houses and extremely energy-efficient houses, which surely cost an arm and a leg,,
I'm talking about a completely normal newly built house, a standard that an average citizen can afford to build, the type of house that most house suppliers build, and it's the year 2010 now with today's technology, and today's building technology, and all the latest appliances, and home electronics etc., and today's insulated walls, roof, windows, etc., a completely normal single-family home,
if we compare it with the used houses with the same living area, which are at least older than the 1990s, is there much to save on these newly built houses in 2010 when it comes to operating costs (electricity, heating etc.),,
how many thousands do you save per year approximately or more accurately if we calculate per month if anyone has a price estimate,,
I'm referring to similar houses in the same residential area, with the same living area and single-story houses for both houses...
is it then worth spending those ridiculously expensive amounts just for the latest technology and reducing operating costs, , do you get the invested money back over time???
to estwing and Jan-Å,, you who are both builders and have owned many houses, as well as have good experience in the field., do you have any good insights on this issue,,??
estwing if I may ask how much do you pay per month in operating costs for your large house,, if it's not too personal financially,,, and if a similar large house were built in 2010 what would it cost in operating per month do you think,,
kind regards
hello.dvd1234 said:hello everyone,,,
I have noticed that my thread is starting to become quite popular here hahaha,, therefore I have come up with new questions to keep the thread going further hahaha
I have a consideration, or rather an attempt to compare between newly built houses and pre-owned houses,,, as everyone knows, pre-owned houses are often older than the 1990s,,, and today in the year 2010, many house manufacturers talk about their houses being energy-efficient, and passive houses etc.,, but if we disregard those passive houses and extremely energy-efficient houses, which certainly cost a fortune,,
I am talking about a completely normal newly built house, a regular standard that an ordinary citizen can afford to build, the house that most house providers build, and it is the year 2010 now with today's technology, and today's construction technology, and all the latest appliances, and home electronics etc., and today's insulated walls, roof, windows, etc.,, a completely ordinary villa,
if we compare it with the pre-owned houses with the same living area, which are at least older than the 1990s, do you save much on these newly built houses 2010 when it comes to operational costs (electricity, heating etc.),,
how many thousand bucks do you save per year approximately or more precisely if we calculate per month if anyone has a price estimate,,
I mean similar houses in the same residential area, with the same living area and one- story houses for both houses...
is it then worth to invest those damn expensive amounts just for the latest technology and reduce operating costs, , do you get the invested money back over time???
to estwing and Jan-Å,, you who are both builders and have owned many houses, and have good experience in the field., do you have a good overview of this area,??
estwing if I may ask how much do you pay per month in operation costs for your large house,, if it is not too personal economics,,, and if a similar large house was built in 2010 what would it cost in operation per month do you think,,
best regards
if you buy a 70-80s house today, you often start replacing the roofs. change panels and add insulation.
the windows may get a replacement too.
you redo the interiors etc.
you decide how much you want to spend on your house and what requirements you have.
I have an annual cost of 13000 kwh/year approx.
completely fine with what I have on this plot and all the square meters.
best regards
carpenter estwing
Almost impossible to answer because it varies from house to house, but when it comes to insulation and heating, a lot has happened in the last 20 years, so there's a big difference. Older houses cost more in heating than new ones, plus older appliances consume significantly more electricity than new ones, and older toilets flush out much more heated water than new ones, etc. etc.
But what this amounts to in money I have no idea. We've always lived in gradually renovated second-hand houses, so I find it hard to assess what a new one costs.
We live in a 108 m2 single-story house with a full basement where we heat the entire basement (including 2 living rooms and a bathroom, etc.), but I don't have a great handle on what it costs. But Vattenfall claims our estimated annual district heating consumption is 37 MWh. Electricity is estimated at 12,600 kWh, we have a variable price. It seems like blåbetong and siporex are good wall materials because we have a warm and cozy home. Replacing the windows, especially the 2 larger sections, would lower the heating cost, but it would take many, many years to recoup because windows are expensive as heck
But what this amounts to in money I have no idea. We've always lived in gradually renovated second-hand houses, so I find it hard to assess what a new one costs.
We live in a 108 m2 single-story house with a full basement where we heat the entire basement (including 2 living rooms and a bathroom, etc.), but I don't have a great handle on what it costs. But Vattenfall claims our estimated annual district heating consumption is 37 MWh. Electricity is estimated at 12,600 kWh, we have a variable price. It seems like blåbetong and siporex are good wall materials because we have a warm and cozy home. Replacing the windows, especially the 2 larger sections, would lower the heating cost, but it would take many, many years to recoup because windows are expensive as heck
If you're wondering what new costs are, there are standard values per m2 on the Swedish National Board of Housing, Building and Planning's website. However, it greatly depends on the type of windows you have and how many.
As a guideline, I have 230 sqm heated to 21-22 degrees and it consumes about 6-8,000 kWh per year in heating, including hot water, depending on winter cold. In addition to that comes household electricity at about 6,000, which also warms a bit. Household electricity is highly dependent on washing and dishwashing, TV, computer, etc.
My house is new and has geothermal heating.
For example, Estwing's house is not expensive to run in comparison, but it also depends on how big your family is.
As a guideline, I have 230 sqm heated to 21-22 degrees and it consumes about 6-8,000 kWh per year in heating, including hot water, depending on winter cold. In addition to that comes household electricity at about 6,000, which also warms a bit. Household electricity is highly dependent on washing and dishwashing, TV, computer, etc.
My house is new and has geothermal heating.
For example, Estwing's house is not expensive to run in comparison, but it also depends on how big your family is.
37,000 kWh for just heating?!!?!?!?!? I wouldn't call that particularly cheap. If you can compare district heating with electricity in that way, but that's what the comparison is about.Jan-Å said:
We poor folks living in a 70s house with direct-acting electric heating and an air-to-air pump had a consumption of 3,000 kWh in December (including household electricity), and that includes a renovation of the laundry room, where it consumed a bit more electricity than usual and draining and moving the water heater, which costs a little to heat up. Annually, that would give us 36,000 kWh with the same consumption all year round; fortunately, it drops to around 900-1,000 kWh in the summer when we don't have any heating on, so we are at about 22,000 kWh per year, including household electricity. We try to keep the house around 21 degrees, but it was difficult this December when it was really cold. In the morning in the kitchen, it was around 16-17 degrees, and then it worked its way up during the day when you got some air circulation in the house.
So you must be able to do a lot to lower your heating costs. Our 1½ story house is 180 sqm.