You wrote "In stone/concrete it doesn't need to be longer than the plug," which I quoted and responded to. And that is completely incorrect.Nimajneb said:It was a bit oddly formulated when I wrote it backwards and assumed that one chose the screw after the plug, not the other way around.
And for those still unsure about what Daniel_N, I, and others are saying, I suggest a simple test with a TP plug (e.g., the brown or blue ones above, "common concrete plug"). Hold it loosely in your hand, take a long screw of the "right dimension" (according to package), and screw it in, see what happens just when the screw goes past the tip of the plug. It worked on all my know-it-all customers who didn't believe what I said about the length being so important.Daniel_N said:
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You are welcome back down to earth whenever you like. How many plugs your collection consists of is irrelevant. What is important for a fastening to withstand as much as it is specified for is that you make the right choice of screw/plug etc. and during installation. That it often suffices with something mediocre is another thing. If someone takes the trouble to photograph their plugs to place them in a custom-built box, you can assume the level of ambition is a bit higher than average, and then it may be appropriate to highlight direct inaccuracies - even if it often works with your method.Nimajneb said:
Look around and see how many poor fastenings there are, both at home and in public environments. Apart from pure sabotage, too-short screws are the most common mistake.
I think you can keep the blue and brown plugs, they work well in the right material, i.e., concrete and other hard, solid materials. I am not familiar with the other plugs. I personally use Alligator plugs (http://www.toggler.com/products/alligator/overview.php), they work in all materials and are the absolute best I have tried, although expensive.MathiasS said:
To avoid misunderstanding the above post, I don't mean that Essve's plug is the only one that works. However, I often failed with plastic plugs before I completely switched to nylon, and I see a big advantage in sticking to the same brand of plug because then you know how they behave. Whether it's Fisher, Essve, or Alligator is probably less important, even though they can probably be ranked.
The purpose of my post was to illustrate the difference between plugs in panel vs plugs in a concrete wall.Daniel_N said:
Sure, it's always better with thicker and longer screws, and we are in complete agreement there.
Also completely OK to say that under extreme conditions (you're at the limit of what a fastening can withstand) it's good to have a plug that is short enough for the screw to go all the way through.
Regardless of your purpose, you wrote that the screw does not need to go through the plug when mounting in concrete and stone. That is incorrect, no matter how you look at it. The fact that it may hold anyway is another issue.Nimajneb said:
You think it's "OK" to say that the screw should be longer than the plug. Thank you for that, but I consider it a minimum requirement. A minimum requirement that doesn't only apply under extreme conditions. The fact that in some cases you can manage with a screw that is too short in relation to the plug is, as mentioned, another issue - it is the exception.
Mathias doesn't question that, see his addition in post #20. If it is Essve's, what did the packaging say about the screw dimension? (obviously not unique to Essve but like Mathias, I am quite sure that at least Essve always specifies this)Anna1984 said:
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Yes exactly, but that wasn't the question. The question was whether it holds as well as using anchors, for example, when attaching heavy objects like televisions if you can't screw directly into a stud.Nimajneb said:
Ok. But not nylon. The first plug looks like Essve's nylon plugs.Anna1984 said:
In addition to what has already been said, it might be worth mentioning that nylon plugs are best used in stone, concrete, and brick - perhaps there are more suitable fasteners in softer materials like lättklinker (I have stopped using plugs there and instead use screws that work without plugs).
Via this link (you may need to copy and paste) you will find a table for suitable screws for your Essve plastic plugs:
http://katalog.essve.se/Content/Data/v70/tekniskinfo_pdf/se/sheet_ess_1_397484.pdf
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Even on Fischer's boxes with wall plugs, it states which drill and the length and thickness of the screw to be used.
Thanks for the tip about not using cutter screws with wall plugs. I hadn't thought of that.
Thanks for the tip about not using cutter screws with wall plugs. I hadn't thought of that.
If you're choosing between any of the plugs you show in the picture and screwing directly into OSB, I would say it's better to screw directly into OSB. Plugs 1, 3 & 4 are not meant for installations in sheet walls (but in concrete, they also work reasonably well in leca). Plugs 2&5 I don't know exactly what they are, but they look like some form of universal plug. These work with sheet materials, but like all universal products it's a trade-off, and my personal opinion is that a sturdy wood screw holds at least as well directly in OSB.Anna1984 said:
However, there are specific fasteners for sheet materials, such as metal expanders or drywall anchors. These likely hold better than a screw in the OSB.
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Yes, at least if you use a thicker screw. There are people who mount their kitchen wall cabinets into the underlying OSB without any problems. But with the right screw, of course, it doesn't need to be very long, but it's an advantage if it's a bit thicker... (haven't we all heard that before or what :-|)Anna1984 said: