I am planning to make an offer on a house that has a layout I want to change if I buy the house.
The house in question is 2 floors plus attic. Wooden frame. Built in 1909.
I thought to ask a theoretical question and if it is economically feasible.
Is it theoretically possible to open up the entire first floor? Tear down all the walls and replace them with beams as pillars?
Not all walls will be removed, but it certainly involves the wall that is load-bearing.
The house in question is 2 floors plus attic. Wooden frame. Built in 1909.
I thought to ask a theoretical question and if it is economically feasible.
Is it theoretically possible to open up the entire first floor? Tear down all the walls and replace them with beams as pillars?
Not all walls will be removed, but it certainly involves the wall that is load-bearing.
Last edited:
In theory, it's definitely possible!
And you can absolutely replace a load-bearing heart wall with a beam and some columns. Either a steel beam recessed into the floor structure or the much less complicated laminated timber option underneath, as long as there is enough height!
I assume there is also a chimney stack in the middle?
And you can absolutely replace a load-bearing heart wall with a beam and some columns. Either a steel beam recessed into the floor structure or the much less complicated laminated timber option underneath, as long as there is enough height!
I assume there is also a chimney stack in the middle?
Good to hear that it works in theory.
The chimney I don't know. Now I'll probably get mostly rice, but I'll link to the property I'm considering.
The house looks really terrible, but since I want a house the way I want it, if you can put it like that, I have to completely renovate even a house if it would cost 1 million.
Building a house from scratch is not an option since you have to count on 2 million. And the finances don't support that.
As I said, I am considering a complete interior renovation to start with. I have an estimated budget of 400,000 to make it habitable.
So now I'm asking you experienced homeowners to give me tips on whether I should even consider placing a bid or take my money and buy something else.
The link http://w4.objektdata.se/pregen/065/OBJ11625_960675065/wp.htm
The chimney I don't know. Now I'll probably get mostly rice, but I'll link to the property I'm considering.
The house looks really terrible, but since I want a house the way I want it, if you can put it like that, I have to completely renovate even a house if it would cost 1 million.
Building a house from scratch is not an option since you have to count on 2 million. And the finances don't support that.
As I said, I am considering a complete interior renovation to start with. I have an estimated budget of 400,000 to make it habitable.
So now I'm asking you experienced homeowners to give me tips on whether I should even consider placing a bid or take my money and buy something else.
The link http://w4.objektdata.se/pregen/065/OBJ11625_960675065/wp.htm
There is a thread about "estwings" renovation with lots of pictures, called "A little remodeling" or something like that. Check it out.
If you're ready to do the same work as him, then a house in this condition could be an interesting object. d^_^b
I've done something similar to estwing but in 2 phases with 2 different houses. Personally, I wouldn't buy this house for extensive renovation.
Firstly, because the starting house isn't good, 2 old storefronts, 1 apartment, and a little house too. q(;^
p It would be exactly as you're thinking to tear down all the walls, I would look for a house that better matched "my" layout from the start.
Secondly, the condition is too poor, we did buy a renovation object ourselves, but this looks more like a tear-down house judging by the pictures. Moreover, with asbestos cement both on walls and roof, asbestos :x is surrounded by environmental regulations that increase costs and complicate the demolition and make it difficult to get rid of the stuff when you're done. AND it's hazardous to health when you start tearing into it, so even if you do it yourself, protective gear is required.
Then I think (but it's a matter of taste) that it was a really ugly house q(;^p, but of course, opinions can differ on that.
If you're ready to do the same work as him, then a house in this condition could be an interesting object. d^_^b
I've done something similar to estwing but in 2 phases with 2 different houses. Personally, I wouldn't buy this house for extensive renovation.
Firstly, because the starting house isn't good, 2 old storefronts, 1 apartment, and a little house too. q(;^
p It would be exactly as you're thinking to tear down all the walls, I would look for a house that better matched "my" layout from the start. Secondly, the condition is too poor, we did buy a renovation object ourselves, but this looks more like a tear-down house judging by the pictures. Moreover, with asbestos cement both on walls and roof, asbestos :x is surrounded by environmental regulations that increase costs and complicate the demolition and make it difficult to get rid of the stuff when you're done. AND it's hazardous to health when you start tearing into it, so even if you do it yourself, protective gear is required.
Then I think (but it's a matter of taste) that it was a really ugly house q(;^
p, but of course, opinions can differ on that.Wow. After looking at the pictures, I think 400,000 is very understated. The problem is that the house is so old and rundown that there is a risk of much larger renovation needs than just painting a little. Especially in the bathroom/toilet/laundry room, kitchen, electrical, and plumbing, and that's where money goes quickly.
Floor 2 has nice wooden floors that you can probably sand and varnish, but the first floor only has linoleum, and you'll probably want to replace those with something else like wood/ceramic, and you should estimate at least 300 SEK/square meter. Sure, there are cheaper and much more expensive options, but around 300 SEK/square meter, you should find nice flooring that you can lay yourself.
I don't think 400 tkr is enough to get where you want with that house either. Otherwise, I think it was quite a fun house... and a lot of original carpentry and the like... I might prefer to see it in the hands of someone who wants to preserve all that. But this is not the building conservation department, so I won't nag about it.
Thanks for all the opinions. Such things are appreciated.
I'll try to respond/defend myself a bit.
I currently live in an apartment that was in pretty bad shape. I haven't changed the walls as they are concrete, but on the concrete, there were up to four layers of wallpaper including seams. So it ended up being a process of tearing down and sanding, filling, sanding, filling, sanding, and so on. We also laid a nice new laminate floor (139 SEK/sqm) in the bedroom. The whole apartment is not completely finished, though. But the bedroom cost about 4,000-5,000 SEK.
In theory, the same could be done in the house, although you might move some walls beforehand?
Regarding the asbestos cement, it won't be prioritized. And asbestos cement isn't dangerous as long as the panels don't break. You can do the work yourself, but you need to have the right equipment as you mentioned, Jan-å.
So my 400,000 is underestimated? I was thinking of replacing all the plumbing and electrical systems. They weren't good back then. I can't spend more and don't want to since I won't see that money again considering the location of the house and the asbestos cement.
Starting price at 200,000 and the condition of the house seem almost perfect for my purpose. If 400,000 SEK isn't enough to fix this house, then I don't know what one should do to get a nice place to age in. 2 million to build new feels a bit excessive.
Maybe it's just as you say, Farzan? That it would be better if someone who can take care of it buys it.
Regarding Erwing's construction, I imagine it's not as much work as renovating. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'll try to respond/defend myself a bit.
I currently live in an apartment that was in pretty bad shape. I haven't changed the walls as they are concrete, but on the concrete, there were up to four layers of wallpaper including seams. So it ended up being a process of tearing down and sanding, filling, sanding, filling, sanding, and so on. We also laid a nice new laminate floor (139 SEK/sqm) in the bedroom. The whole apartment is not completely finished, though. But the bedroom cost about 4,000-5,000 SEK.
In theory, the same could be done in the house, although you might move some walls beforehand?
Regarding the asbestos cement, it won't be prioritized. And asbestos cement isn't dangerous as long as the panels don't break. You can do the work yourself, but you need to have the right equipment as you mentioned, Jan-å.
So my 400,000 is underestimated? I was thinking of replacing all the plumbing and electrical systems. They weren't good back then. I can't spend more and don't want to since I won't see that money again considering the location of the house and the asbestos cement.
Starting price at 200,000 and the condition of the house seem almost perfect for my purpose. If 400,000 SEK isn't enough to fix this house, then I don't know what one should do to get a nice place to age in. 2 million to build new feels a bit excessive.
Maybe it's just as you say, Farzan? That it would be better if someone who can take care of it buys it.
Regarding Erwing's construction, I imagine it's not as much work as renovating. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited:
Well, then I'll have to correct youLite said:
...or well, it depends, but it can often be quite fiddly with an old house - crooked and wonky here and there, things that need to be straightened or reinforced or... You start tearing into something and find that it really didn't look like you expected it to under the surface, so then you scratch your head for a while before moving on. It's simply so much less predictable than building new/adding on, and that applies to the costs as well.Being able to renovate the surface of a room for 4-5,000 as you did is quite normal. But here, there are many rooms, and with some layout changes, you've quickly burned 100,000 just on that and the surfaces. Rewiring the entire house, up to 100,000. Probably you'll need to redo at least some wet rooms to make it livable - again, up to 100,000 if professionals are to do it. A kitchen as well, around 50,000 for the simplest of simple if you do everything yourself. All the plumbing, a few tens of thousands more. Oil burner, maybe it's time to do something about the heating? Do the windows need to be replaced or renovated? You can easily burn half a million on that house. Significantly more if it’s to be a nicer kitchen and more than one wet room.
Electricity 100,000? Oh, that expensive? I was thinking of doing most of it myself with the placement of outlets and installing channels and letting an electrician connect the connections. Is the material that expensive, or did you include the labor cost for the electrician to do everything?
The windows would be replaced then. I assume that's easily 60,000. For heating, I was thinking of 1 air heat pump on the upper floor and a fireplace on the lower floor with complementary electric heating or solar panels.
If the upper floor is used as the "living floor" and the lower floor is insulated, I think an air heat pump can handle most of the job.
The windows would be replaced then. I assume that's easily 60,000. For heating, I was thinking of 1 air heat pump on the upper floor and a fireplace on the lower floor with complementary electric heating or solar panels.
If the upper floor is used as the "living floor" and the lower floor is insulated, I think an air heat pump can handle most of the job.
Electricity 100,000, that was including labor and it's of course not something I've calculated myself, just what I've heard from others that it amounted to, a bit more or less. If you do a lot yourself it will of course be cheaper.
The problem is that you are NOT allowed to install channels and outlets yourself. It is simply not permitted. Sure, there are electricians who let you do it because they find it really boring to install pipes and boxes and run wires; they just come at the end to connect it. But it's not allowed.
You can probably manage to renovate the house with 400,000 if you do everything yourself (including the electricity). But the question is, will you feel satisfied afterward? That you didn't skimp on anything? Maybe you should have put OSB behind the drywall instead of single drywall? Or that you wanted the more expensive thing, which was a bit nicer?
Moreover, you don't know what it looks like behind the walls, and that's where the big money is. What happens when you tear down a wall and realize the entire frame has major damage and needs to be replaced? Or that all the drainpipes in the entire house need to be replaced? If 400,000 for renovation is really the max, then I wouldn't jump on it...
Such an old house that hasn't been renovated is guaranteed to offer surprises when you start tearing into walls and ceilings. I, as mentioned, wouldn't buy it, but if I were to consider it, a thorough examination of the foundation and structure is absolutely necessary. Is the timber/logs sound from the ground up? And from the other direction, how do the roof and rafters look? Is the roof tight?
But as I said, the advice is not to buy it.
My family and I converted an 1800s cottage into a villa, increasing the living area from 80 to 165 m2, all on our own with a sawmill in the family, costing 600,000 SEK in 1986. You have 400,000 for the renovation of this one?
It's always difficult to estimate renovations, and we always disagree on the forum when we start suggesting how much we think it's going to cost. But in my world, it would cost at least 1.5 million to make that a livable house.
But as I said, the advice is not to buy it.
My family and I converted an 1800s cottage into a villa, increasing the living area from 80 to 165 m2, all on our own with a sawmill in the family, costing 600,000 SEK in 1986. You have 400,000 for the renovation of this one?
It's always difficult to estimate renovations, and we always disagree on the forum when we start suggesting how much we think it's going to cost. But in my world, it would cost at least 1.5 million to make that a livable house.
Yes, I do believe Jan-Å is closer to the truth with his 1.5 million than 400,000. Let it stay in theory with opening up the downstairs. Then even 1.5 million won't be enough, I'm afraid. In this case, it might be more economical to demolish and build new. In your case, having sanded some wallpaper and done some plastering can't compare to this project. This requires an enormous amount of work to get it right. With all due respect, choose another project. This is too much for a beginner. Yes, even if you've done quite a bit.
hello!
now I'm going to describe how I think and not how you should do it.
if I've looked at this house and blindly want it, then:
yes, THE ROOF is what you start with first, not going in and demolishing walls, etc. is the roof good? the hat on the house is the most important.
drainage? yes, this is an expensive cost if it needs to be done; the houses are close together and it's hard to access the gables.
internally: yes, I wouldn't have started tearing down walls first; I want to be able to live in the house first, think, sketch, ponder... 1 month later, redo it again, new ideas have popped up, etc.
show friends how you've thought and they get other perspectives on how you've thought, yes you understand.
heating: yes, here's some money that needs to go out...
can I run the furnace while I'm doing the renovation and take the furnace room last?
I would need 1 toilet and 1 bathroom... how big do I want it?
maybe a home theater room?
how is the house insulated? no point in finishing everything inside if you're still heating for nothing.
the fireplace? needs renovation, hiring out and rerouting the flue costs around 1500:-/m although I did this myself and it cost 200 kr but you have to be able to do it.
as I said, once you've lived for a while and the sketch you've made is perfect, then it's time...
the roof is fixed first, if you're going to add paneling and extra insulation, then the roof overhang should be extended a little more as well as the roof edge perhaps a bit.
blown out all the walls and really looked at HOW you get support for an H-beam and you shouldn't use laminated beams then an H-beam is better.
then I'd want underfloor heating, in this house the floors are cold and that's something I hate walking on brrrr.
up with the floor and level then down with the heating pipes.
would have placed 28x70 timber, thus battened all the exterior walls and pulled all the electricity there because starting to groove in, etc., is just stupid.
on with OSB or chipboard then plasterboard.
the kitchen: yes, maybe it shouldn't be where it is today but moved to the other end?
new drainage, etc.
all inner ceilings should be battened and the electrics run in them.
all electricity should be replaced and maybe 2 new centers...
yes, this list becomes long, I've done a little project myself at home with my villa and I say this: if you're not knowledgeable, can only work 10 hours a week on the house, don't have machines or knowledgeable kind friends who can help you at least one day a week, a kind wife, children, no hobbies more for a few years.
forget this project.
400K is not enough.
but if you have a lot of time, etc. and want to spend a number of years, then yes, why not, but a stomach ulcer will come.
I got it 2 times during my time.
hope I haven't written anything silly or discouraging but this is how I think.
best regards
estwing
now I'm going to describe how I think and not how you should do it.
if I've looked at this house and blindly want it, then:
yes, THE ROOF is what you start with first, not going in and demolishing walls, etc. is the roof good? the hat on the house is the most important.
drainage? yes, this is an expensive cost if it needs to be done; the houses are close together and it's hard to access the gables.
internally: yes, I wouldn't have started tearing down walls first; I want to be able to live in the house first, think, sketch, ponder... 1 month later, redo it again, new ideas have popped up, etc.
show friends how you've thought and they get other perspectives on how you've thought, yes you understand.
heating: yes, here's some money that needs to go out...
can I run the furnace while I'm doing the renovation and take the furnace room last?
I would need 1 toilet and 1 bathroom... how big do I want it?
maybe a home theater room?
how is the house insulated? no point in finishing everything inside if you're still heating for nothing.
the fireplace? needs renovation, hiring out and rerouting the flue costs around 1500:-/m although I did this myself and it cost 200 kr but you have to be able to do it.
as I said, once you've lived for a while and the sketch you've made is perfect, then it's time...
the roof is fixed first, if you're going to add paneling and extra insulation, then the roof overhang should be extended a little more as well as the roof edge perhaps a bit.
blown out all the walls and really looked at HOW you get support for an H-beam and you shouldn't use laminated beams then an H-beam is better.
then I'd want underfloor heating, in this house the floors are cold and that's something I hate walking on brrrr.
up with the floor and level then down with the heating pipes.
would have placed 28x70 timber, thus battened all the exterior walls and pulled all the electricity there because starting to groove in, etc., is just stupid.
on with OSB or chipboard then plasterboard.
the kitchen: yes, maybe it shouldn't be where it is today but moved to the other end?
new drainage, etc.
all inner ceilings should be battened and the electrics run in them.
all electricity should be replaced and maybe 2 new centers...
yes, this list becomes long, I've done a little project myself at home with my villa and I say this: if you're not knowledgeable, can only work 10 hours a week on the house, don't have machines or knowledgeable kind friends who can help you at least one day a week, a kind wife, children, no hobbies more for a few years.
forget this project.
400K is not enough.
but if you have a lot of time, etc. and want to spend a number of years, then yes, why not, but a stomach ulcer will come.
I got it 2 times during my time.
hope I haven't written anything silly or discouraging but this is how I think.
best regards
estwing
I have now, after your kind and experienced tips, decided to calm down about this. When you sit and ponder, plan, calculate on your own, especially when you haven't done it before at that scale, you don't realize what will come with it.
I had thought that you would tear down everything you could on the outer walls, replace a couple of studs, run the electrical wiring, insulate, put up a drywall, fill and paint, roughly speaking. A couple of days of work in your mind, but when you're actually standing there, I guess it makes a difference.
I know the feeling from when I was going to renovate an old caravan once, planned it in the smallest detail, and made a budget. Started tearing until I discovered it was mold-damaged. Everything had to be torn down, new studs, new everything. Then when I was in the middle of the work, one wall collapsed.
Then I realized that you might as well build a new caravan. It didn’t happen as hope vanished, but the analogy applies to houses too. It might cost more to renovate than just building new in the long run, in both time and money.
We have another alternative, which is a condo shaped like a house in a wonderful family-friendly area. But then it's not your own house, and expanding and tinkering is not an option, but it's a mixed blessing.
Considering the society, situation, and the age/condition of the house, it's not worth investing more than 600,000 as mentioned. You'll never see anything above that again when you sell.
I had thought that you would tear down everything you could on the outer walls, replace a couple of studs, run the electrical wiring, insulate, put up a drywall, fill and paint, roughly speaking. A couple of days of work in your mind, but when you're actually standing there, I guess it makes a difference.
I know the feeling from when I was going to renovate an old caravan once, planned it in the smallest detail, and made a budget. Started tearing until I discovered it was mold-damaged. Everything had to be torn down, new studs, new everything. Then when I was in the middle of the work, one wall collapsed.
Then I realized that you might as well build a new caravan. It didn’t happen as hope vanished, but the analogy applies to houses too. It might cost more to renovate than just building new in the long run, in both time and money.
We have another alternative, which is a condo shaped like a house in a wonderful family-friendly area. But then it's not your own house, and expanding and tinkering is not an option, but it's a mixed blessing.
Considering the society, situation, and the age/condition of the house, it's not worth investing more than 600,000 as mentioned. You'll never see anything above that again when you sell.
Last edited: