In response, I'll say that it's probably an optical illusion. It's tongue and groove that sits on top of the rafters, however, it's so moldy that you can't see the contours anymoreElkludde said:
Regarding the realtor, I can't help but agree...
One option can be, in connection with replacing the roof decking and renovating the roof trusses, to move the insulation to the roof instead of the attic floor, thereby creating a warm loft. So, insulation between the roof trusses, not on top. Then it depends on how it looks, how you can achieve an air gap and sufficient insulation thickness...
It could certainly be the case. And that would actually be good because then the attic might be working as it should - as long as it's sealed from above. Here is a picture that I think supports your thesis. It clearly looks like two large spots.Elkludde said:
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Nah, a box of matches will solve that.... ;-)
I have an attic from 1956 with cellulose insulation, a gable vent, and two eaves vents, probably a similar construction to this, I imagine!? We had electric heating from 1993 - 2010 and then ground source heat pump from 2010-, and our attic has no mold or condensation whatsoever...dry as a bone, however, we have paper and clay tiles that have been in place since 1956 (probably time to replace the paper soon ) we did have a small leak that I fixed...it became slightly darker, nowhere near this, and it formed rings when it dried up....it spontaneously feels like eaves ventilation is needed and the black is a severe black mold infestation, likely why there is the most infestation down by the eaves, doesn’t look like moisture damage.
) we did have a small leak that I fixed...it became slightly darker, nowhere near this, and it formed rings when it dried up....it spontaneously feels like eaves ventilation is needed and the black is a severe black mold infestation, likely why there is the most infestation down by the eaves, doesn’t look like moisture damage.
I hope you don't mean that seriously!mångstekta said:
Or is it a joke that I'm misinterpreting
Member
· Stockholms Län
· 702 posts
As mentioned, it really doesn't look good.
An amateur analysis...
- I imagine that much could be due to leakage from the outside.
- But if we assume the moisture is coming from inside, there must have been completely free airflow from below or some kind of overpressure in the living area or underpressure in the attic (no exhaust fan or similar in the attic?).
- Tightness to the living space is important, attic hatches/doors should be insulated and sealed (use rubber strips and polystyrene) and close obvious holes/gaps (ventilations, sewer vent pipes, or channels in the chimney that end in the attic instead of going through the roof).
- If so much has ended up in the attic (which may be due to incorrect pressures), you almost need to check the walls to ensure they don't look the same there. Moist air could have been forced into the walls as well.
- Load-bearing parts need to be checked by a professional (i.e., someone who can calculate and understands how a roof truss works) (if it's not obvious that they're just a little blackened (not gone in depth)).
There are many attics with sawdust even without ventilation that don't look like that, so you should probably manage without plastic under the sawdust (although I don't think it hurts). In your case, the sawdust might also be bad (mold spores), so it might not hurt to replace it with some cellulose or wood fiber insulation.
Then it's just a matter of removing the sheathing, applying Boracol to the roof trusses and other wood, putting on new sheathing, underlayment, and a new roof. I don't have knowledge about insulation on top of the sheathing, but it feels like a relatively untested method (even though it's theoretically appealing), so I actually don't know how I would do it myself, but energy-wise it's good if you can insulate there and, at the same time, insulate more between the living area and the cold attic.
While you have everything torn up, you can run spiral ducts with exhaust in the kitchen (not the kitchen fan), bathroom, and possibly hallway/closet that you connect to an inline fan, install supply vents in the walls in bedrooms and living room to ensure underpressure in the living space (do not install a fan before this is addressed; you shouldn't draw those mold spores into the living area!!!)
The risk is that during the work, you'll start to dislike the sellers, so make sure to make a reasonable deduction for visible and potential consequential damages and have no ambiguities regarding responsibility, etc. For example, it probably isn't a hidden defect if the walls are also rotten when the attic looks like this.
Edit: That it's worse at the bottom might indicate that the leakage of moist air occurs between the ceiling and the outer wall in some way.
An amateur analysis...
- I imagine that much could be due to leakage from the outside.
- But if we assume the moisture is coming from inside, there must have been completely free airflow from below or some kind of overpressure in the living area or underpressure in the attic (no exhaust fan or similar in the attic?).
- Tightness to the living space is important, attic hatches/doors should be insulated and sealed (use rubber strips and polystyrene) and close obvious holes/gaps (ventilations, sewer vent pipes, or channels in the chimney that end in the attic instead of going through the roof).
- If so much has ended up in the attic (which may be due to incorrect pressures), you almost need to check the walls to ensure they don't look the same there. Moist air could have been forced into the walls as well.
- Load-bearing parts need to be checked by a professional (i.e., someone who can calculate and understands how a roof truss works) (if it's not obvious that they're just a little blackened (not gone in depth)).
There are many attics with sawdust even without ventilation that don't look like that, so you should probably manage without plastic under the sawdust (although I don't think it hurts). In your case, the sawdust might also be bad (mold spores), so it might not hurt to replace it with some cellulose or wood fiber insulation.
Then it's just a matter of removing the sheathing, applying Boracol to the roof trusses and other wood, putting on new sheathing, underlayment, and a new roof. I don't have knowledge about insulation on top of the sheathing, but it feels like a relatively untested method (even though it's theoretically appealing), so I actually don't know how I would do it myself, but energy-wise it's good if you can insulate there and, at the same time, insulate more between the living area and the cold attic.
While you have everything torn up, you can run spiral ducts with exhaust in the kitchen (not the kitchen fan), bathroom, and possibly hallway/closet that you connect to an inline fan, install supply vents in the walls in bedrooms and living room to ensure underpressure in the living space (do not install a fan before this is addressed; you shouldn't draw those mold spores into the living area!!!)
The risk is that during the work, you'll start to dislike the sellers, so make sure to make a reasonable deduction for visible and potential consequential damages and have no ambiguities regarding responsibility, etc. For example, it probably isn't a hidden defect if the walls are also rotten when the attic looks like this.
Edit: That it's worse at the bottom might indicate that the leakage of moist air occurs between the ceiling and the outer wall in some way.
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Porous facades absorb a lot of water, which then gets pushed into the air gap behind them under certain conditions. For example, spring sun and subsequent clear cold nights.
I never really speculate on such things "for real" - I either find out the necessary facts, think things through, and come up with something smart that I present for a fee, or I keep my mouth shut.
...but here on Byggahus you are almost anonymous and in good company with a lot of other anonymous experts, so why not, just for fun, play around a bit.
Now I've only seen the pictures, but I don't think it's leakage. It seems more likely that it's a poor design where the air gap between the facade brick and the load-bearing part of the wall communicates with the attic space.
The consultant now recommending negative pressure in the living space might get unhappy customers when the family starts having respiratory issues and guests whisper about mold smells in certain rooms. To achieve this, you also need to ventilate more, which increases energy consumption. As a consultant, you could then sell them an FTX system, but suddenly it's a full renovation to handle all the ducts ... no... not ideal...
The consultant who recommends replacing the roof with a similar new one and increasing ventilation at the ridge (or using mold stoppers) might also see an unhappy customer after a few years when it looks even worse because the convective transport has been increased further.
No, I *think*, as I said, that you should replace the roof structure completely. An insulated roof feels safer. At the same time, you need to see where the facade releases the vapor that's being ventilated away.
I wouldn't dare buy that house myself because there's probably other work that hasn't been done correctly. What does it look like behind the facade brick?
I never really speculate on such things "for real" - I either find out the necessary facts, think things through, and come up with something smart that I present for a fee, or I keep my mouth shut.
...but here on Byggahus you are almost anonymous and in good company with a lot of other anonymous experts, so why not, just for fun, play around a bit.
Now I've only seen the pictures, but I don't think it's leakage. It seems more likely that it's a poor design where the air gap between the facade brick and the load-bearing part of the wall communicates with the attic space.
The consultant now recommending negative pressure in the living space might get unhappy customers when the family starts having respiratory issues and guests whisper about mold smells in certain rooms. To achieve this, you also need to ventilate more, which increases energy consumption. As a consultant, you could then sell them an FTX system, but suddenly it's a full renovation to handle all the ducts ... no... not ideal...
The consultant who recommends replacing the roof with a similar new one and increasing ventilation at the ridge (or using mold stoppers) might also see an unhappy customer after a few years when it looks even worse because the convective transport has been increased further.
No, I *think*, as I said, that you should replace the roof structure completely. An insulated roof feels safer. At the same time, you need to see where the facade releases the vapor that's being ventilated away.
I wouldn't dare buy that house myself because there's probably other work that hasn't been done correctly. What does it look like behind the facade brick?
If we're going to speculate.....
It would be interesting to find out if there are more houses built by the same builder (group construction??) and if these also have the same or similar problems.
One can say that the majority of houses in the country do not exhibit such damages (and that's fortunate). Therefore, something fundamentally wrong must have occurred in just this house.
There are other houses without damage....
....that have cellulose insulation
....that don't have soffit ventilation
....that don't have a moisture barrier against the living space
... that have leaky attic hatches.
Could it be that this house has all of these combined and therefore the damages occur, or is it still a leak from outside?
What surprises me is the jet-black "color." Is this really common to find so much and such an even coating?
It would be interesting to find out if there are more houses built by the same builder (group construction??) and if these also have the same or similar problems.
One can say that the majority of houses in the country do not exhibit such damages (and that's fortunate). Therefore, something fundamentally wrong must have occurred in just this house.
There are other houses without damage....
....that have cellulose insulation
....that don't have soffit ventilation
....that don't have a moisture barrier against the living space
... that have leaky attic hatches.
Could it be that this house has all of these combined and therefore the damages occur, or is it still a leak from outside?
What surprises me is the jet-black "color." Is this really common to find so much and such an even coating?
Living in a house from the mid-30s that meets all these points, but it doesn't look like this on the inside of our roof (plus original roofing paper and tiles-yes, I know. A roof barely lasts 30 years here on BH, so it's a pure wonder that we're not sleeping under the open sky...) so I absolutely agree that this feels like a real exception, and I wouldn't have been so interested in buying it without a well-sized price reduction.roland53 said:If we are going to speculate.....
It would be interesting to know if there are more houses built by the same builder (group development??) and if these also have the same or similar issues.
One can say that the majority of houses in the country do not show such damage (and luckily so). So something fundamentally wrong must have occurred in this particular house.
There are other houses without damage....
....that have wooden fiber insulation
....that do not have eave ventilation
....that do not have a moisture barrier against living space
...that have drafty attic hatches.
Could it be that this house has all these combined, and therefore the damage occurs, or is it still a leak from outside?
What surprises me is the pitch-black "color." Is it really common to find so much and such even coating?
A bit of irony perhaps... but sometimes you wonder if more problems need to be solved... I'm afraid of what several have expressed here, if it looks like that in the attic, how does the rest look... I would have turned at the door!KnockOnWood said:You can't be serious I hope!
Or is it a joke that I'm misinterpreting