Hello I know that this has been discussed in the forum several times before, but I can't find any direct answers, so I'm starting a new thread. NOTE! I'm not interested in comments about plastering being the best and basements being basements, etc. I am aware of the risk of using drywall in the basement, the question I'm asking is how I can minimize the risk and still achieve a good result
Conditions: A corner room in a basement/souterrain floor, less than half of the walls are underground, the ground slopes so there are varying levels of the wall below ground. The climate in the room is good, FTX ventilation and recently re-drained (unfortunately without insulation). The exterior walls consist of about 30cm of lightweight concrete both in the basement and on the upper floor.
We are going to convert the room into a combined study and guest room. We will lay tiles directly on the floor (yes, it will be a bit cold but that's OK). The problem is the walls, we have decided to use drywall for several reasons. The two exterior walls we plan to drywall with 45mm metal studs, the two interior walls we plan to use 6mm renovation drywall on (one wall has a door on it which we would need to move otherwise, the other wall has FTX ventilation pipes so it becomes difficult to attach the steel track there.) The thing that's causing a bit of a headache is the insulation. It would be nice to have insulation since there will be space for it, and now there are suddenly many different ideas about what works and what doesn't.
Option 1: I read in various threads that the best thing would be to put insulation in the framework and then leave about a 3cm air gap between the insulation and the wall, then have a ventilated baseboard and ceiling trim. But after thinking about it, that seems like a really bad solution. The space between the wall and the insulation will (if the insulation works) become colder, so it's a bad idea to let warmer room air circulate in there, and moreover, the insulation does minimal good if warm air can get behind it.
Option 2: Like above, but instead of a ventilated baseboard and ceiling trim, I seal with latex. If you change your mind, you can remove the latex and voila, you have option 1. (This is the direction I'm leaning towards at the moment...)
Option 3: Like above, but also fill the space between the metal studs and the wall with insulation. This is typically what you want, you don't usually want an air gap in the middle of the insulation. I also found this guide from Gyproc where they advocate this model: http://www.gyproc.se/gör+det+själv/så+här+gör+du/källare/med+stålstomme?WT.mc_id=CellarSteel
Option 4: Skip the insulation and put up the drywall with a cavity behind, with ventilated floor and ceiling trim.
Conditions: A corner room in a basement/souterrain floor, less than half of the walls are underground, the ground slopes so there are varying levels of the wall below ground. The climate in the room is good, FTX ventilation and recently re-drained (unfortunately without insulation). The exterior walls consist of about 30cm of lightweight concrete both in the basement and on the upper floor.
We are going to convert the room into a combined study and guest room. We will lay tiles directly on the floor (yes, it will be a bit cold but that's OK). The problem is the walls, we have decided to use drywall for several reasons. The two exterior walls we plan to drywall with 45mm metal studs, the two interior walls we plan to use 6mm renovation drywall on (one wall has a door on it which we would need to move otherwise, the other wall has FTX ventilation pipes so it becomes difficult to attach the steel track there.) The thing that's causing a bit of a headache is the insulation. It would be nice to have insulation since there will be space for it, and now there are suddenly many different ideas about what works and what doesn't.
Option 1: I read in various threads that the best thing would be to put insulation in the framework and then leave about a 3cm air gap between the insulation and the wall, then have a ventilated baseboard and ceiling trim. But after thinking about it, that seems like a really bad solution. The space between the wall and the insulation will (if the insulation works) become colder, so it's a bad idea to let warmer room air circulate in there, and moreover, the insulation does minimal good if warm air can get behind it.
Option 2: Like above, but instead of a ventilated baseboard and ceiling trim, I seal with latex. If you change your mind, you can remove the latex and voila, you have option 1. (This is the direction I'm leaning towards at the moment...)
Option 3: Like above, but also fill the space between the metal studs and the wall with insulation. This is typically what you want, you don't usually want an air gap in the middle of the insulation. I also found this guide from Gyproc where they advocate this model: http://www.gyproc.se/gör+det+själv/så+här+gör+du/källare/med+stålstomme?WT.mc_id=CellarSteel
Option 4: Skip the insulation and put up the drywall with a cavity behind, with ventilated floor and ceiling trim.
I'm soon facing a similar challenge, and have therefore been thinking along similar lines. I don't have a finalized answer, but some reflections.
Since the walls are partially backfilled, there is a risk of moisture penetration. Hence the argument "let the basement be a basement" - but in practice, you (and neither can I) do that. But can one mimic such a solution even if building more "furnished"? One thought I've had is to put a waterproof board directly on the wall, fill and paint with murvärn. Then you get, if I understand it correctly, a wall that is completely unaffected by moisture. This I imagine in combination with isodrän on the outside - if you don't have that opportunity, you lose the insulation ability, but it gives more floor space than your option 4 because you avoid the cavity, and you avoid the risk of moisture attacking the paper on the plasterboard.
However, I don't know if you think it will be furnished enough - the waterproof board is, as I've understood, equivalent to plaster but without the paper problem. Murvärn paint gives a somewhat matte impression compared to regular paint, so maybe a risk that you find this as bad as the plastering option (albeit significantly smoother).
If you choose the metal stud option, my feeling is that a foam-like material (PIR/PUR) should be better than classic mineral wool, and thus the ventilation issue could be avoided. I intend to learn more about this, but have not yet come far enough to be sure of my case or to recommend any product or the like.
Hope this was of some help, and didn't just give you more to think about...
Since the walls are partially backfilled, there is a risk of moisture penetration. Hence the argument "let the basement be a basement" - but in practice, you (and neither can I) do that. But can one mimic such a solution even if building more "furnished"? One thought I've had is to put a waterproof board directly on the wall, fill and paint with murvärn. Then you get, if I understand it correctly, a wall that is completely unaffected by moisture. This I imagine in combination with isodrän on the outside - if you don't have that opportunity, you lose the insulation ability, but it gives more floor space than your option 4 because you avoid the cavity, and you avoid the risk of moisture attacking the paper on the plasterboard.
However, I don't know if you think it will be furnished enough - the waterproof board is, as I've understood, equivalent to plaster but without the paper problem. Murvärn paint gives a somewhat matte impression compared to regular paint, so maybe a risk that you find this as bad as the plastering option (albeit significantly smoother).
If you choose the metal stud option, my feeling is that a foam-like material (PIR/PUR) should be better than classic mineral wool, and thus the ventilation issue could be avoided. I intend to learn more about this, but have not yet come far enough to be sure of my case or to recommend any product or the like.
Hope this was of some help, and didn't just give you more to think about...
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Thank you for a constructive response with new ideas. How were you thinking of attaching the wet room boards? Can they be glued with gypsum mortar? Do the wet room boards breathe? If so, it's an interesting idea, but the question is how easy it is to put it together, steel frame has the advantage that the wall becomes completely straight and nice regardless of how the wall behind looks, I would probably need to knock down quite a bit of plaster to get a good attachment too. Unfortunately, they are quite expensive as well, I would need boards for 6500 SEK... and no insulation as you wrote... 4.5 cm is quite a lot anyway. The previous owner has mounted a gypsum wall with wooden studs and a gypsum piece between the planks and the wall, additionally insulated in the small 2-3 cm space, and it has not resulted in any bad smell or other problems so far, and that is the most covered wall... it has been like that for at least 5 years...
I was thinking about adhesive. A bit more expensive than plaster, but super easy to handle.
I don't know if the wet room panels breathe, I've also wondered about that. It might vary depending on which type you choose, there are quite a few different ones (see e.g. this thread). But I believe the construction is okay even if the panel doesn't breathe - after all, it is moisture-resistant, and as a potential waterproofing layer, it doesn't matter if it is intact/sealed or not since the entire construction is made moisture-resistant. But sure, it would be best if you could find a wet room panel that breathes.
Good that you have dry walls. My situation is a bit different - previous owners also used wooden studs and insulation here - but in this case, odor and incipient mold appeared like clockwork. Therefore, I want to do something better adapted to the humid environment.
My walls are reasonably flat. It does require some additional work if that is not the case, true.
I don't know if the wet room panels breathe, I've also wondered about that. It might vary depending on which type you choose, there are quite a few different ones (see e.g. this thread). But I believe the construction is okay even if the panel doesn't breathe - after all, it is moisture-resistant, and as a potential waterproofing layer, it doesn't matter if it is intact/sealed or not since the entire construction is made moisture-resistant. But sure, it would be best if you could find a wet room panel that breathes.
Good that you have dry walls. My situation is a bit different - previous owners also used wooden studs and insulation here - but in this case, odor and incipient mold appeared like clockwork. Therefore, I want to do something better adapted to the humid environment.
My walls are reasonably flat. It does require some additional work if that is not the case, true.
The risk if they are sealed is probably that you get moisture seepage in another place, like the floor, the adjacent room, or something similar...
Well, of course. I'm building new floors with 20cm isodrän at the same time, and will do all the backfilled walls at the same time, so it should be okay. But sure, the best would be a board that breathes. I guess I'll have to try to go through the list of waterproof boards and try to understand if there is any of them that breathes.
This discussion reminds me that I would also prefer a surface floor that breathes. I have now asked about that in a new thread.
This discussion reminds me that I would also prefer a surface floor that breathes. I have now asked about that in a new thread.
Jumping on the thread.
If you don't want to spend money on wet room panels for the entire basement, which of the above four options do you think one should go for, and what should one consider besides the fact that a basement can be damp, etc.?
If you don't want to spend money on wet room panels for the entire basement, which of the above four options do you think one should go for, and what should one consider besides the fact that a basement can be damp, etc.?
I know I might be super fussy now. But I really don’t mean it in a bad way.
Saying that a basement is a basement doesn’t have to mean it should be ugly and boring.
Here is a link to our plastered stairs
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/byggma...t-snyggt-bilder-pa-resultatet-pa-s-2-a-2.html
And here are pictures of our basement hall. A bit messy.
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/social...illa-hus-som-aldrig-kommer-att-bli-klart.html
I don't think it's just because I live there that I think it's at least as stylish as a wallpapered drywall.
Saying that a basement is a basement doesn’t have to mean it should be ugly and boring.
Here is a link to our plastered stairs
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/byggma...t-snyggt-bilder-pa-resultatet-pa-s-2-a-2.html
And here are pictures of our basement hall. A bit messy.
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/social...illa-hus-som-aldrig-kommer-att-bli-klart.html
I don't think it's just because I live there that I think it's at least as stylish as a wallpapered drywall.
What people mean by "a basement is a basement" is generally that it should be used as storage, a workshop, and not as living space, it doesn't primarily have to do with how you build the walls.AnneFi said:
Otherwise, I completely agree with you, it's obviously possible to plaster very nicely. But I have ruled out that maneuver because I don't think I can achieve a good enough result with a reasonable amount of work. Framing up drywall is an easy maneuver, but plastering so that it becomes straight and nice is really no quick and easy maneuver. Additionally, it would be nice to get some insulation in and to avoid having to groove for electricity and data outlets...
It's true. My partner works with bricklaying and plastering, so it's a bit easier for us/him 