Hello,
I have a basement ceiling where I would like to install electrical wiring, but first I need to figure out if I can just take down the panels or if there's insulation on top of them. It seems like it would be quite cumbersome to push up insulation from below, I suspect.
I've tried to pry down a panel but it seems like they are glued in place!? The Masonite board (or whatever it is) just bends and the paint bubbles.
I can't see any nails in the panels and they are quite uneven in some areas. You can also see in some of the pictures that the ceiling in the living room part of the basement (which has been remodeled) is around the same height as the ceiling in this room. You can also see that the window boxes meant to be replaced with windows are right up against the ceiling, which makes it difficult just to lower the ceiling.
The house was built in '71 and is a single-story with a finished basement. It's essentially a wooden house with a brick facade.
Here's how it looks:
Album for close-ups: http://imgur.com/a/uDtpr
What do you think about this? Do I need to break a panel to figure out if I can replace this ceiling with smooth gypsum? If it turns out the insulation rests on these panels, I think it will be too much work (at least for me) to replace the entire ceiling.
I have a basement ceiling where I would like to install electrical wiring, but first I need to figure out if I can just take down the panels or if there's insulation on top of them. It seems like it would be quite cumbersome to push up insulation from below, I suspect.
I've tried to pry down a panel but it seems like they are glued in place!? The Masonite board (or whatever it is) just bends and the paint bubbles.
I can't see any nails in the panels and they are quite uneven in some areas. You can also see in some of the pictures that the ceiling in the living room part of the basement (which has been remodeled) is around the same height as the ceiling in this room. You can also see that the window boxes meant to be replaced with windows are right up against the ceiling, which makes it difficult just to lower the ceiling.
The house was built in '71 and is a single-story with a finished basement. It's essentially a wooden house with a brick facade.
Here's how it looks:
Album for close-ups: http://imgur.com/a/uDtpr
What do you think about this? Do I need to break a panel to figure out if I can replace this ceiling with smooth gypsum? If it turns out the insulation rests on these panels, I think it will be too much work (at least for me) to replace the entire ceiling.
I think it looks like tretex and it will break if you try to take it down, I believe. I would probably gypsum over the bef boards when you are done.
Oh yes, it is likely that there is insulation above the boards but not very much. I would guess a maximum thickness of 70mm
Can't you drill holes with a hole saw and fish through what you want to install in the ceiling? That's what I would have done.
Can't you drill holes with a hole saw and fish through what you want to install in the ceiling? That's what I would have done.
Yes, it seems possible, but how could they have attached it considering it's not easy to pull down? If I plaster over it, I'll have 2 problems: 1. The windows already reach all the way up to the ceiling and a bit more as it is now, 2. I'll probably need to place some type of studs in between since the panels are quite uneven, which means that I'll build even more towards the windows.
Now we are indeed going to replace the windows, but the idea is that they should end up at the same level as the other windows on the basement level (i.e., use the same hole). However, the new windows will have frames and be openable, so there could be a bit of leeway.
If there is insulation and you pull it down, is it possible to put it back up without renting large machines? I.e., can a regular drywall carrier hold a drywall panel with insulation in place without breaking?
Otherwise, it sounds convenient to just drill slightly larger holes here and there to run the electrical conduits.
Now we are indeed going to replace the windows, but the idea is that they should end up at the same level as the other windows on the basement level (i.e., use the same hole). However, the new windows will have frames and be openable, so there could be a bit of leeway.
If there is insulation and you pull it down, is it possible to put it back up without renting large machines? I.e., can a regular drywall carrier hold a drywall panel with insulation in place without breaking?
Otherwise, it sounds convenient to just drill slightly larger holes here and there to run the electrical conduits.
Is it a wooden beam floor? It is tretex (soft particle board) and the boards are supposed to be nailed. There should be a sparse panel that the boards are nailed into, and it is supposed to hold up the insulation if you tear down the boards.
Yes, exactly, it's a wooden beam structure. I can't see any clear nails, but of course, they could still be nailed, maybe the nails are driven a bit into the panels, or small heads were used and then painted over. And yes, there are beams above these panels, probably what you call sparse panels. If you tap on the panels, you may determine that they are spaced maybe half a meter apart or something like that.
If I measure from the floor to the ceiling, it's about 2.19 meters in both the previously converted "gillestuga" and in this room I'm working on now. The difference is that in the "gillestuga," there is a clearly nicer ceiling, but it still doesn't seem like much has been taken from the windows at the top (there are openable basement windows there).
So the question is, if I remove these panels and want to put up drywall, is it possible to reinstall insulation, or is that a big and extensive job?
I would have liked to put drywall directly on these panels, but the problem, as mentioned, is that the window height already goes all the way up and the panels currently there are quite uneven.
If I measure from the floor to the ceiling, it's about 2.19 meters in both the previously converted "gillestuga" and in this room I'm working on now. The difference is that in the "gillestuga," there is a clearly nicer ceiling, but it still doesn't seem like much has been taken from the windows at the top (there are openable basement windows there).
So the question is, if I remove these panels and want to put up drywall, is it possible to reinstall insulation, or is that a big and extensive job?
I would have liked to put drywall directly on these panels, but the problem, as mentioned, is that the window height already goes all the way up and the panels currently there are quite uneven.
Yes, then I will find out what's there, but I was wondering if there was any standard for this so that one knew if there was insulation on top. From what I understand, there will be insulation on these slabs and getting up new slabs later with insulation on sounds like a heavy job?MathiasS said:
The insulation is not a problem. As mentioned, it usually lies in the joists and is held in place by the framework. You nail a couple of boards of sparse paneling, put up an insulation board, nail a couple more boards, new board, etc. It's not particularly heavy at all. It's much worse to get the drywall up, where you should either have two friends or a panel lift. Do it properly while you're at it! That way, you can fix your ugly electrical cables at the same time 
Sounds like an idea, but do I really need to put up battens? It will add another centimeter in height, won't it? How was it done originally? Did they lay the insulation from above during construction?tommib said:The insulation is not a problem. As mentioned, it is usually in the floor structure and is held in place by the battens. You nail a couple of batten boards, insert an insulation board, nail a couple more boards, new board, etc. It's not particularly heavy at all. It's much worse to lift the drywall sheets, there you should either have two friends or a drywall lift. Do it properly while you're at it! Then you can fix your ugly electrical cables at the same time
One typically installs sparse paneling to have something to attach the boards to. The joists rarely have the correct center-to-center measurements for mounting boards. As a bonus, it's easier to install insulation. It's hard to know which way the insulation was placed, but in any case, it's not particularly difficult to do it from below.
When you’re prying down the boards, it's also good to have two people. Then each person can work on the board from both sides simultaneously with their own crowbar. Pry gently and try to cover as much surface area as possible each time so that you don't just splinter the board. It's a bit hard to explain, but you learn the technique after a while.
When you’re prying down the boards, it's also good to have two people. Then each person can work on the board from both sides simultaneously with their own crowbar. Pry gently and try to cover as much surface area as possible each time so that you don't just splinter the board. It's a bit hard to explain, but you learn the technique after a while.
I would say that the usual setup is that there is raw wood plank nailed to the joists with insulation on top of this. These boards are nailed to the raw plank.snowjim said:
IF by any chance you need to add new insulation (I can’t really see how you'd end up in that situation though), then you just push insulation up into the joists where it stays by itself, then you nail sparse panels and then put up gypsum with a panel lift.
Okay, so I probably don't need to worry about the insulation, I just need to remove the ceiling tiles, put up batten boards, attach cut plasterboards, fill, and finally paint? It sounds like a job I could do myself.
Then I'll get the electricians in when the ceiling is removed so they can install the wiring before I put up the batten boards.
If the insulation falls down when I remove the tiles, can it be reused or will I need to buy new?
How much do we think the ceiling might be built up if done this way? I assume the batten boards will take a few cm and the plasterboards are probably thicker than the tiles that are there now. Just thinking about not overlapping the windows.
This is what a window looks like in the already finished room:
http://i.imgur.com/Nw652iD.jpg
You can see that the ceiling extends a bit on the top edge of the window frame; I hope I won't need to build up much more in the room I'm currently working on.
Then I'll get the electricians in when the ceiling is removed so they can install the wiring before I put up the batten boards.
If the insulation falls down when I remove the tiles, can it be reused or will I need to buy new?
How much do we think the ceiling might be built up if done this way? I assume the batten boards will take a few cm and the plasterboards are probably thicker than the tiles that are there now. Just thinking about not overlapping the windows.
This is what a window looks like in the already finished room:
http://i.imgur.com/Nw652iD.jpg
You can see that the ceiling extends a bit on the top edge of the window frame; I hope I won't need to build up much more in the room I'm currently working on.