Hello! Is it possible to save these beams and if so, what is the best approach?
Conditions
Vacation home from '76
10*5 meters
250 mm posts that stand on bedrock, cc 2.5 m. 3 rows of posts with 5 posts in each row. (Cc 2.5 m) Large level difference on the posts, about 95 mm between the highest and lowest post. They are also not fully vertical; I think they were poorly cast.
On the posts are beams with dimensions of 50*150 mm that are spliced overlapped. (Cc 2.5 m) These sag down between the posts about 3 cm.
On the beams lies the floor joist 130*50
(Cc 60 cm) The floor inside is not level and is uneven in most directions.
It is very cramped underneath in some places, 50-30 cm up to the floor joist. So it will be very cramped to get in with a rotary hammer if one were to fasten new rebar and cast new posts.
How do I solve this in the best way?
How can I solve the posts? Currently, it's wedged underneath in several places. Just thinking that you can see with the naked eye that they are not vertical, is it just to make new posts next to the old ones? How can one solve the issue when it's so cramped that you can't get underneath with a rotary hammer?
Use block and wedge under the last bit?
I've read that you can lift the beam with a jack and replace it with a new one. Just thinking that I will need to lift up the house quite a bit since I need heavier beams than the ones currently there. The idea was to use a 90*180 laminated beam; does that seem reasonable?
Finally, I wonder about the floor joist? Does it also need to be replaced, or will the floor be straighter if I fix the beams?
According to the wood guide, 145*45 can handle 4.83 m, thinking that 130*50 might be equivalent and should be sufficient?
I’m attaching some pictures where I'm trying to show the level difference on the posts and how the beams are sagging.
I hope someone can provide some guidance on how I should think.
Best regards, Anders
Conditions
Vacation home from '76
10*5 meters
250 mm posts that stand on bedrock, cc 2.5 m. 3 rows of posts with 5 posts in each row. (Cc 2.5 m) Large level difference on the posts, about 95 mm between the highest and lowest post. They are also not fully vertical; I think they were poorly cast.
On the posts are beams with dimensions of 50*150 mm that are spliced overlapped. (Cc 2.5 m) These sag down between the posts about 3 cm.
On the beams lies the floor joist 130*50
(Cc 60 cm) The floor inside is not level and is uneven in most directions.
It is very cramped underneath in some places, 50-30 cm up to the floor joist. So it will be very cramped to get in with a rotary hammer if one were to fasten new rebar and cast new posts.
How do I solve this in the best way?
How can I solve the posts? Currently, it's wedged underneath in several places. Just thinking that you can see with the naked eye that they are not vertical, is it just to make new posts next to the old ones? How can one solve the issue when it's so cramped that you can't get underneath with a rotary hammer?
Use block and wedge under the last bit?
I've read that you can lift the beam with a jack and replace it with a new one. Just thinking that I will need to lift up the house quite a bit since I need heavier beams than the ones currently there. The idea was to use a 90*180 laminated beam; does that seem reasonable?
Finally, I wonder about the floor joist? Does it also need to be replaced, or will the floor be straighter if I fix the beams?
According to the wood guide, 145*45 can handle 4.83 m, thinking that 130*50 might be equivalent and should be sufficient?
I’m attaching some pictures where I'm trying to show the level difference on the posts and how the beams are sagging.
I hope someone can provide some guidance on how I should think.
Best regards, Anders
Last edited:
Fixed them now, just cellphone camera pictures thoughricebridge said:
Yes, oh my, that's quite a challenge.
The easiest way is probably to tear up the floor from the inside and then rebuild it. That way, you can cast new plinths and set straight joists to your heart's content.
I doubt it's possible to level that within the next century, especially as you say it slopes in all possible directions — it would have been difficult enough if it only sloped in one direction.
The easiest way is probably to tear up the floor from the inside and then rebuild it. That way, you can cast new plinths and set straight joists to your heart's content.
I doubt it's possible to level that within the next century, especially as you say it slopes in all possible directions — it would have been difficult enough if it only sloped in one direction.
Yes, my mistake. 5 footings, changing thatCruzze said:
Yes, then it's probably easier to tear it all down and build everything again?
Hmm. Wonder if the easiest thing really is to rip up the entire floor. You have a house that has stood for almost 50 years. Do you have any signs that the sloping has increased over the years? Or has it always been equally uneven - not entirely unlikely. If the latter, do you really need to worry about the plinths? Is it just an annoyance that the indoor floor slopes, can't you just lay a new floor inside that you level?
Have only lived here for barely 2 years so can't really say but there was a good slope on the floor when I moved in. What also worries me is that one of the bearing beams is very close to the edge of the plinth row. It's just inside the plinth. Then I'm a little worried that the bearing beams are sagging down too?S stugfar said:
I don't know if it's reassuring, but the floor in my summer house slopes quite a bit in part of the house due to different heights on the first and second pier rows, even though it’s been properly shimmed with various planks between the piers and beams. The floor slope hasn't increased or decreased in about 8 years. Neither have the piers - which are tilted every which way - begun to tilt more or less.Anders Bylund said:
I believe a house often remains where it stands. Even if a beam is slightly crooked on a pier, and it tilts a bit, it's unlikely the beam will just slip off like that or that the pier will start to tilt more after 50 years.
And beams do sag. Although it seems a bit long at 2.5 m for those beams, 3 cm doesn't seem abnormal to me at least.
Perhaps start tracking more carefully with markers here and there? And start thinking about adjusting the interior floor if it doesn't move over the course of a year (you'll want to measure during different seasons since wooden houses can shift throughout the year).
No, I don't think they'll collapse tomorrow, but it's something that needs to be addressed over time. Plus, the wife wants me to build on one section and add a second floor to part of this structure, which feels a bit...😅S stugfar said:
Well, with such extensive plans, it becomes important for someone to calculate whether the existing structure can support an additional floor. From everything you've listed so far, it doesn't seem to me that you need to worry until such a renovation becomes relevant. It rather feels quite normal.
If you are very interested in such things, there's a lot to read on träguiden.se:
https://www.traguiden.se/konstruktion/
Yes, the plan was to start this summer with it, but I have to try to fix the support beams first.S stugfar said:
Is it normal for the support beams to sag 3 cm between the pillars?🤔
Grateful for the answers so far, it seems like casting low square pillars and then laying leka on them is the best option.
3 cm is not unusual, but your potential problem arises when you load the joists with a new floor. In the link I sent you, you can find more about deflection. Also, search here in the forum for the user justusandersson and you will find a lot of valuable and interesting information.
Yes, there's a lot to read there but it's not so easy for the average person to figure out what to use for sizing.S stugfar said: