Help!!!!!
Can we insulate our walls with "space insulation foil", 8mm = 15mm traditional insulation according to the manufacturer? I've read some old posts and I don't get a positive impression from them... But is there anyone out there who has PERSONAL experience with this???
Can we insulate our walls with "space insulation foil", 8mm = 15mm traditional insulation according to the manufacturer? I've read some old posts and I don't get a positive impression from them... But is there anyone out there who has PERSONAL experience with this???
Think about it this way, if it were as good as it sounds, everyone would have it, right?
I can imagine this isolering where there is absolutely no room for regular isolering.
If something is too good to be true, it probably is.
I can imagine this isolering where there is absolutely no room for regular isolering.
If something is too good to be true, it probably is.
There are several links on the forum about this. Found an old one about what I suspect is the same/similar material: http://www.byggahus.se/forum/isolering/50097-rymdisolering-scansulate-airflex.html
/Ingenjören
/Ingenjören
And one here:
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/isolering/103045-isolering-i-aentligen-hemma-tv4-mod-edit.html
The gist is, if it were really that good, why aren't there any independent tests showing this? They have had enough time to come up with such by now.
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/isolering/103045-isolering-i-aentligen-hemma-tv4-mod-edit.html
The gist is, if it were really that good, why aren't there any independent tests showing this? They have had enough time to come up with such by now.
It would be interesting to know how important a factor the thermal radiation really is?
If it would make a big difference to reduce it, one would think that the major manufacturers of fiberglass, etc., would have produced a product with an aluminum foil. At least the products that have a wind barrier should be able to easily have an aluminum coating as well.
If it would make a big difference to reduce it, one would think that the major manufacturers of fiberglass, etc., would have produced a product with an aluminum foil. At least the products that have a wind barrier should be able to easily have an aluminum coating as well.
They don't do this because it doesn't work that way. A reflective coating requires air in front (inside, on the warm side) to be effective.hempularen said:
However, there are other materials that can be used to provide better insulation in thin layers. Expensive stuff, but it can be useful for breaking thermal bridges in steel components.
http://www.aerogel.com/markets/building.html
There are new-old products on the market that improve the lambda value of existing insulation materials. Starting with regular foam plastic with a lambda of 0.038-0.040 W/mK, by adding graphite, you can prevent infrared radiation from escaping. The chemical giant BASF calls it Neopor, and the boards are gray with a lambda of 0.031 W/mK. http://www.corporate-qual.basf.com/...4071_neopor-anwendung2---application2_03d.jpg
Two other interesting products, this time from Ecotherm, are XPS boards and mineral wool boards coated with aluminum foil. With these, they manage to get down to a lambda of 0.024 W/mK, or expressed another way, U=0.135 W/m2K at a thickness of 18 cm http://www.selthaan.de/Download.aspx?File=3815. Link to prospectus with pictures and other interesting information http://www.selthaan.de/Download.aspx?File=3656
Two other interesting products, this time from Ecotherm, are XPS boards and mineral wool boards coated with aluminum foil. With these, they manage to get down to a lambda of 0.024 W/mK, or expressed another way, U=0.135 W/m2K at a thickness of 18 cm http://www.selthaan.de/Download.aspx?File=3815. Link to prospectus with pictures and other interesting information http://www.selthaan.de/Download.aspx?File=3656
Regardless of whether it’s mineral wool or foam plastic, it's the trapped air that insulates. Therefore, there is always "air in front," as you put it. Yes, provided that you install the boards with the aluminum foil towards the cold side, of courseKrawk said:
Ecotherm products are not made of XPS but of polyurethane.
0.024W/m,K is nothing special for this material. The aluminum foil does nothing.
There is indeed air in the insulation, but the width of the air gap also plays a role. This becomes very small because there is a lot of fiberglass in the way. You cannot see much through even a thin fiberglass mat, right?
Moreover, you need to attach the foil to the insulation, usually with the help of glue. This glue has poor reflective properties. In other words, the foil is only shiny on the outside.
But it's practical in the summer.
BASF-Neopor is, however, a nice innovation. I'm not familiar with it in detail, but I guess the graphite works by creating a reflective surface inside each air pore. Many small mirrors, so to speak.
0.024W/m,K is nothing special for this material. The aluminum foil does nothing.
There is indeed air in the insulation, but the width of the air gap also plays a role. This becomes very small because there is a lot of fiberglass in the way. You cannot see much through even a thin fiberglass mat, right?
Moreover, you need to attach the foil to the insulation, usually with the help of glue. This glue has poor reflective properties. In other words, the foil is only shiny on the outside.
But it's practical in the summer.
BASF-Neopor is, however, a nice innovation. I'm not familiar with it in detail, but I guess the graphite works by creating a reflective surface inside each air pore. Many small mirrors, so to speak.
Well, Ecotherm adds aluminum foil to make it look cool, I guess
Joking aside, I think its purpose might be to block infrared radiation, similar to the metal oxide layer on insulated glass units or the graphite in gray foam. Lambda is a measure of thermal conductivity, and infrared radiation, as the name suggests, is essentially heat radiation, so lambda 0.021 W/mK for PU might be only half the truth. To draw a parallel to windows - what lambda value might an insulated glass unit have? Probably not proportional to its U-value, considering the thickness of the pane.
However, it is PU and not XPS.
Joking aside, I think its purpose might be to block infrared radiation, similar to the metal oxide layer on insulated glass units or the graphite in gray foam. Lambda is a measure of thermal conductivity, and infrared radiation, as the name suggests, is essentially heat radiation, so lambda 0.021 W/mK for PU might be only half the truth. To draw a parallel to windows - what lambda value might an insulated glass unit have? Probably not proportional to its U-value, considering the thickness of the pane.
However, it is PU and not XPS.
Not as strange as it sounds. It's called marketing, you have to make your product special somehow.isolde said:Yeah, Ecotherm adds the aluminum foil to make it look cool, I guess
Conduction is not the same as radiation. Two entirely different mechanisms for energy transfer. In homogeneous materials, there is no transfer of heat via radiation. It is therefore not possible to reflect this.isolde said:
After this article, I have not heard anything more about the trial: http://www.vk.se/Article.jsp?article=252492&comment=true
Press release stating that the trials will continue in the winter. http://www.bostaden.umea.se/nyheter/forsta-resultaten-fran-test-av-isoleringar
There is a bit of a difference between insulating against a vacuum atmosphere and an air atmosphere.
Radiation is, as far as I know, the only way to transfer energy in space. That is, a heat sink works even in space, though less effectively, as it only emits radiation and not thermal energy.
Radiation is, as far as I know, the only way to transfer energy in space. That is, a heat sink works even in space, though less effectively, as it only emits radiation and not thermal energy.
One of them also has a thin, reflective insulation from NASA. Another friggebod has a thin vacuum insulation. A third has a new type of thin mineral wool insulation. A fourth has no insulation, except for the conventional insulation.
- The measurements are ongoing for two weeks. Among other things, we will check for tightness and temperature, says Ulf Nordwall.
The vacuum insulation seems most interesting, even though it is most effective against convection. It's a shame that there is no link to how the vacuum insulation is constructed and how manageable it is as a product.
- The measurements are ongoing for two weeks. Among other things, we will check for tightness and temperature, says Ulf Nordwall.
The vacuum insulation seems most interesting, even though it is most effective against convection. It's a shame that there is no link to how the vacuum insulation is constructed and how manageable it is as a product.