horizontal or vertical studs when adding insulation

[Arne999]

I am in the process of adding insulation to the facade, which will have vertical paneling. I used horizontal battens on the gable, which has worked well. The advantage, as I see it, is that the wind barrier is not punctured by every single nail that would otherwise go through the nailing batten and through the barrier.

However, it would have been easier to set up vertical battens I think.... But then, as mentioned, you do puncture the wind barrier, which doesn't feel right, or????

 

[vectrex]

You can buy nails that have the right length in relation to the panel and the nailing rule. They exist.

 

[vectrex]

Then I think there are other advantages to horizontal studs. For one, you can use significantly thinner nail battens because you can place them flush against the underlying stud (with the windproof paper in between).

Additionally, it is good to break the thermal bridges that your old studs constitute. This latter point assumes that the house has a stud frame, but perhaps you have an older house with a solid plank frame?

 

[Arne999]

I have a log house.

Do you mean that I should nail the paneling with nails shorter than 22+38mm (I have 38 batten) this sounds a bit too skimpy... Additionally, the nail gun drives in differently so to be safe it's actually a few mm shorter even that applies.

 

[vectrex]

I have a log house.

Do you mean that I should nail the uprights with nails shorter than 22+38mm (have 38mm nail battens), this sounds a bit too meager... Additionally, the nail gun drives them in differently, so to be on the safe side, you need a few mm shorter as well

I mean that if you add insulation with horizontal studs, e.g. 45x45, you can then attach a wind barrier and then use, for example, 15mm thick nail battens on top of each 45x45 stud.

Of course, you nail with nails that secure firmly into the underlying 45x45 stud. 75mm nails seem to fit well in your case!

 

[Arne999]

Aja okay, it's the horizontal that's required, plain and simple.

 

[Arne999]

But speaking of that... It's quite common to put wind barrier on standing studs, and then nail battens that are nailed straight through, which punctures the barrier...???

Another detail... I placed 70 studs lying on the gable since the nail battens are 70... The wind barrier that is 125 wide fits so-so.... I guess a 45 width is enough but then it feels pointless with 70 nail battens...

 

[Arne999]

I also read this on the wood guide, which definitely means that the wind barrier is punctured by nails without being clamped around...

In situations exposed to driving rain, it is advisable to attach vertical ventilation battens or spacer plates of, for example,8 mm board between the nailing battens and the wind barrier to ensure ventilation and prevent water on the top of the nailing battens from penetrating and damaging the wall construction. This is especially important for lapped boards and tongue-and-groove panels. In the case of lapped panels, ventilation is thought to be provided by the construction itself with paneling and nailing battens. If special battens or spacers are used behind the nailing battens, the thickness of the nailing battens should be at least34 mm in site-built exterior walls so that the battens can span freely.

 

[vectrex]

Of course, it's madness to puncture the wind barrier. It does very little good if it's perforated with thousands of small holes.

As I wrote in my first post, there are correct nail lengths to use. Gunnebo has cladding nails in dimensions 2.8-48, 2.8-55, 2.8-70, and 2.8-75. Using nails that go through the battens provides no extra pull-out strength since they will just be sitting in "air."

So, as I wrote from the beginning, either clamp the wind barrier between two studs, then it's fine to nail through it. Or use an appropriate nail length.

 

[vectrex]

But speaking of that... It's quite common to put wind barrier paper on vertical studs, and then nail battens through them, which punctures the paper, right...???

It is certainly common, but it is still wrong. Unfortunately, it's common for incorrect practices to be prevalent in the construction industry!

Another detail... I placed 70 studs horizontally on the gable as the nail battens are 70.... It kind of matched with the wind barrier paper that is 125 wide.... I assume 45 width is enough but then it seems pointless with 70 nail battens...

I don't understand this? Set the nail battens at CC 60 and it's fine, the CC dimension has nothing to do with the width of the studs.
Then I think you should use a wind fabric that is 3 meters wide. Much faster to put up. Paper belongs to the 70s.

 

[Arne999]

I set 70reglar with 55.5cm in between to fit the insulation without having to cut everything... This results in a slightly higher cc measurement which meant that the 125cm paper didn't fit so well...3m sounds like a better alternative...

 

[vectrex]

I set 70 studs with 55.5cm spacing to fit the insulation without having to cut everything.... This means a slightly higher cc measurement which made the 125cm paper not fit so well... 3m sounds like a better alternative...

Ok, I get it. But there is nothing stopping you from placing 45x45 studs horizontally and then using 70 wide nail battens on top. If you place them centered over each other, it will still work well. The nails should then be adjusted so they don't go through the nail batten.

What I meant was that you don't need to use nail battens as thick as 38mm. If you're going to do that anyway, you might as well place the "insulation studs" standing. The advantage I meant was that you can use, for example, 15mm thick nail battens provided they have support along their entire length behind a 45mm stud. It takes up a little less space, which can often be an advantage considering windows and foundation sills and such. Furthermore, 15mm nail battens are significantly cheaper than 38mm thick.

 

[Arne999]

This was the info I followed from the wood guide... 34 (not 38 as I wrote) is already purchased in a big pile. Like the person in the picture also, the rule is attached directly on the wind barrier with the mineral oils on spacer blocks behind.... This punctures everywhere with 75mm nail

Nailing strip: 34x70 mm G4-3 or better with sloping top. Vertical and horizontal wall stud: construction timber 45 mm.
Wind protection: external approved and moisture-resistant board.
Thermal insulation: mineral wool boards.
Vapor barrier: aging-resistant plastic film.
Interior cladding: cladding boards or wood paneling.


Alternative 1:
Standing wood panel with cover strip: base board thickness ≥ 22 mm, width ≤ 175 mm. The dimension of the cover strip is determined, among other things, with regard to appearance.
Fasteners: hot-dip galvanized wire nail 75-2.8, alternatively panel screw length 48-60 mm, for base boards <25 mm, hot-dip galvanized wire nail 100-3.4, alternatively panel screw length 75-90 mm, for boards ≥ 25 mm and for cover boards and cover strip.

 

[vectrex]

It was this info I was going off from the wood guide.... 34 (not 38 as I wrote) has already been purchased in a big pile. Like in the picture, the rules are mounted directly on windproofing with the mineral oils on spacer blocks behind.... This punctures the end everywhere with a 75mm nail

Don't you read what I write or?

 

[Dr Trä]

No worries about puncturing the wind barrier if you have a horizontal 45x45 to attach the battens to, as vectrex writes. However, if you only have battens without horizontal studs, you should be careful not to puncture the wind barrier. This was a repetition of what has been written Many house manufacturers use, for example, 50 mm nails that are as thick as a 90 nail. The thickness of the nail is needed to get a good "grip," if you, for instance, put panels on horizontal battens without 45x45 behind them. Unfortunately, these nails don't seem very common in hardware stores. But in your case, if I understood correctly, 60,70 mm nails for the underlying boards and 90 nails for the "covers". 70 nails are too weak to secure the covers with.