Hello
Last autumn, we raised the roof so that the house went from a 26.5-degree slope to a 38-degree slope with a 1 m raised wall height. The house is made of wood, and the joists are standard 600 mm centers.
I am planning to have underfloor heating on the entire upper floor, and to avoid raising the height too much, I thought of recessing the cross-battens (120x28) between the joists (running lengthwise in the direction of the joists) and under the battens, using nogging with 45x45 (400 centers). On the battens, I am thinking of laying 12 mm chipboard and 7 mm laminate.
I thought to let the noggings rest on 45x45, which would be attached with screws to the joists.
My question is whether this construction seems sensible.
Above all, will the 45x45 noggings hold, or do I need to choose a larger dimension?
I hope someone here might know a bit more about load-bearing than I do.
Last autumn, we raised the roof so that the house went from a 26.5-degree slope to a 38-degree slope with a 1 m raised wall height. The house is made of wood, and the joists are standard 600 mm centers.
I am planning to have underfloor heating on the entire upper floor, and to avoid raising the height too much, I thought of recessing the cross-battens (120x28) between the joists (running lengthwise in the direction of the joists) and under the battens, using nogging with 45x45 (400 centers). On the battens, I am thinking of laying 12 mm chipboard and 7 mm laminate.
I thought to let the noggings rest on 45x45, which would be attached with screws to the joists.
My question is whether this construction seems sensible.
Above all, will the 45x45 noggings hold, or do I need to choose a larger dimension?
I hope someone here might know a bit more about load-bearing than I do.
there shouldn't be any problems with that, they will probably just carry up the sparse and floor tubing since the chipboards are supported by the floor joists.................another way is to lay 21mm raw wood with about a 20mm gap every 20 cm where you can tuck down the tubing......you lay those across the floor beams......then on that, floor chipboard and laminate------less work and it only takes 21mm ceiling height
Hello,
quite recently installed floorboards on the upper floor. Did it roughly according to the guidelines, but replaced 120x28 with 45x22. Reason? The spacing is 400 mm between joists (220x45), quite tight. I used standard batten, but sorted out the most crooked ones. Since every third joist was also part of the truss, some were quite tensioned. In the worst cases, there was a 15mm difference between the edge and the middle. According to the truss manufacturer, this is fine, but not so fun for me who had to lay flooring on it. The solution was to plane down the worst parts and shim with masonite where it went the other way. But - this extra work I had wouldn't come close to what you would have with your suggestion - Trim pans. In addition to the level of the joists, you also have to monitor the level of every single noggin you anchor between the joists. And there will likely be quite a few noggins if you want underfloor heating on the entire upper floor, hence your suggestion is time-consuming.
No, I don't believe in your suggestion at all, and I mean that with the best intentions. You are going to have problems with varying floor levels and (eventually) creaking. The particle board we chose is 16mm. We had issues with all the joints swelling where it was glued for some reason. The floor installer claimed this happens with particle board < 22mm, so it had to be sanded down. Unfortunately, you propose an even thinner particle board!?
My suggestion is that you follow the recommendations and install the battens and through them the underfloor heating pipes perpendicular to the joists. You may lose a few cm in height, but between two evils where a poor floor is one and a slightly lower ceiling height is the other, I would choose the latter option. You could also look at 22mm particle board with pre-milled grooves for the underfloor heating pipes. It has the least build-up and I believe it can be laid directly on the joists, even if they are c/c 600. Check that option out if you think it's worth it economically.
Hope you don't feel disheartened by this, and good luck with your choice.
quite recently installed floorboards on the upper floor. Did it roughly according to the guidelines, but replaced 120x28 with 45x22. Reason? The spacing is 400 mm between joists (220x45), quite tight. I used standard batten, but sorted out the most crooked ones. Since every third joist was also part of the truss, some were quite tensioned. In the worst cases, there was a 15mm difference between the edge and the middle. According to the truss manufacturer, this is fine, but not so fun for me who had to lay flooring on it. The solution was to plane down the worst parts and shim with masonite where it went the other way. But - this extra work I had wouldn't come close to what you would have with your suggestion - Trim pans. In addition to the level of the joists, you also have to monitor the level of every single noggin you anchor between the joists. And there will likely be quite a few noggins if you want underfloor heating on the entire upper floor, hence your suggestion is time-consuming.
No, I don't believe in your suggestion at all, and I mean that with the best intentions. You are going to have problems with varying floor levels and (eventually) creaking. The particle board we chose is 16mm. We had issues with all the joints swelling where it was glued for some reason. The floor installer claimed this happens with particle board < 22mm, so it had to be sanded down. Unfortunately, you propose an even thinner particle board!?
My suggestion is that you follow the recommendations and install the battens and through them the underfloor heating pipes perpendicular to the joists. You may lose a few cm in height, but between two evils where a poor floor is one and a slightly lower ceiling height is the other, I would choose the latter option. You could also look at 22mm particle board with pre-milled grooves for the underfloor heating pipes. It has the least build-up and I believe it can be laid directly on the joists, even if they are c/c 600. Check that option out if you think it's worth it economically.
Hope you don't feel disheartened by this, and good luck with your choice.
No, the idea was that the sparse would be load-bearing. Otherwise, you need 22 mm chipboard to get the construction load-bearing. Not like I thought, 12 mm chipboard.El_-micke said:
And besides, it would be quite unnecessary to have such thick sparse.
No, I just realize that I might have checked with a forum like this earlier. It's precisely an idea "brainstorming" that leads to the best solutions.kmilic said:
The problem I've had so far is that it has been difficult to get any architect firms/construction consultants to give any answers and calculate the work. Everyone I've asked has referred me to the fact that they don't work with private individuals. (even though I've been willing to pay for the work).
By the way, I hadn't thought at all that everything can sink over time. Thanks for the tip.
I'm starting to realize more and more that I might have to lay the spars across instead and bite the bullet over the slightly raised floor height. The problem there isn't really because the ceiling height becomes too poor but because the floor joist is already 420 mm and it's a bit worse for the staircase. The new trusses are on the old ones, hence the high floor joist.
If you now lay across the floor joist, a setup according to below should work:
Sparse (about 20 mm between the spars, so that you can fit the underfloor heating pipes) + 12 mm chipboard and then 7 mm laminate.
As I said, if you're alone thinking, the solution usually becomes moderately good, if you have someone to brainstorm with, the solution can become very good.
Thanks for the reply
Oops, forgot one thing:kmilic said:
Initially considered installing 22 mm grooved particleboard, but the problem there is the price, about 3 times as much. Additionally, a local plumbing company mentioned that there would be a lot of waste.
As mentioned, very grateful for your comments. It always helps to have someone else's perspective on a problem.
If you have an overhead router, you buy regular 22-chipboard and use boards as support to make it fairly straight, the rounded parts can also be solved with various tools.
Maybe an economical option?
Maybe an economical option?
The problem is that unfortunately I have already bought the battens and the 12 mm chipboard.spocks_beard said:
Since I've realized that my first solution was less suitable, I have to try to find an alternative based on what I have. Definitely when it comes to the battens and hopefully also the chipboard.
So unfortunately.
The reason I already bought the material was that I discussed it with someone at Beijer Bygg and he thought my setup sounded okay. However, it feels like he was wrong.
For my part, it's important that everything ends up well in the end, and hopefully without too many extra expenses.
if I understand correctly, you already have 120x28mm gles at home? Then place it across your cc40 joists and then add gray paper and the laminate floor on top of it. If you want to do this a bit better, add a layer of floor plasterboard on top of the gles and then the laminate floor.
The chipboards you bought can be screwed onto the wall instead, behind the plaster. They are no use on the floor. Laying 22mm chipboard on the floor AND gles panel when you are going to have a laminate floor is wasted and unnecessary.
All the other constructions you talked about seem both complicated and unnecessary.
The chipboards you bought can be screwed onto the wall instead, behind the plaster. They are no use on the floor. Laying 22mm chipboard on the floor AND gles panel when you are going to have a laminate floor is wasted and unnecessary.
All the other constructions you talked about seem both complicated and unnecessary.
Ask to replace your particleboard with actual flooring chipboard, you can probably get that if they are undamaged. Then place the battens you bought along with your joists, provided they are straight and nice, of course. Do not fasten the battens to the joists; instead, let them rest on the insulation or support them with blocks underneath. The idea is that later, when you've laid the chipboard floor, you screw the battens to the underside of the flooring chipboards. This is to ensure contact between the heat plates and the chipboard. A mm gap here significantly deteriorates heat conduction. Also, be careful to constantly mark on the chipboard where your floor loops go so you don't screw into them; use a pen that will still be visible after many years, as you might want to change something in the future. Another thing that's very important for underfloor heating in timber joists is that all the wood is properly dry before you install it, which naturally also applies to the flooring chipboards. Rent a moisture meter if you're unsure.
Oh, not many correct there. A mix-up of several posts, partly my question and partly responses from others.MathiasS said:
Laying gypsum on top of underfloor heating is probably not a good idea since, as far as I know, it conducts heat even worse than chipboard.
I have a cc 600 mm joist and have 120x28 gles panel plus 12 mm chipboard already purchased.
The reason I originally thought of making the more complicated construction was to ensure the total height from the ground floor wouldn't become too large. If you already have a 420 mm thick joist, you don't want to increase it even more. However, it will have to be that way anyway.
A tip for MathiasS is to read and distinguish between the different posts before responding.
Sure, if one is not planning to have a heated floor I would naturally have used 22 mm chipboard (which I assume you're referring to). Now, since there are heating coils in the floor, having about a 30 mm thick floor over the heating pipes is not a good idea. Firstly, the system would become very sluggish and secondly, you might have to increase the temperature in the pipes. (According to a local plumbing company, this is not recommended.)Jan-L said:
One should keep in mind that water-based underfloor heating systems are usually of the low-temperature type, which might need adjusting if the overlying floor is too thick.
Therefore, I aim to achieve as thin a floor as possible on top without compromising the floor's load-bearing capacity. With the setup I currently have in mind, I would end up with about 21 mm (1 mm heating plate, 1 mm felt paper, 12 mm chipboard, and 7 mm laminate).
(All the wood is already stored in the attic in a pile and before that, it was kept dry outside.)
The plumbing companies I have been in contact with say that it works well with 22 mm particleboard, I would never take a chance with anything less. Look at the link below for what uponor recommends, page 11.
http://www.uponor.se/upload/documen...roschyrer/5031 022007 Rörläggning 070131B.pdf
http://www.uponor.se/upload/documen...roschyrer/5031 022007 Rörläggning 070131B.pdf
Great tip from you, that I didn't think of it earlier! Completely crazy!trimsten said:
If I read this post correctly, your problem is not that the ceiling height on the upper floor becomes too low but that the joist becomes too thick? I've seen many questions about underfloor heating here over the years, but this one was completely new!
cc60 is not a good measurement for lathing. If you're going to use the materials you have, you'll need to go for some glued construction to avoid a sagging floor - I wouldn't do that. I'd rather go to the trouble of adding a joist and getting cc30 to build from. Then it holds with just the lathing.
Drywall on top of underfloor heating is in some cases a very good idea (so you at least get to put one right on my account).