What momentum this thread has gained, fun with different reflections and that it sparks debate!
When I crawl into the attic with a crawl height of 60-70 cm, with my delicate body weight of 102 kilograms, I see that the lower arms of the rafters are at various heights, almost all of them, hard to explain without a picture.
I will get back to you tonight with a longer response to your comments and questions! Maybe I'll get some pictures too!
When I crawl into the attic with a crawl height of 60-70 cm, with my delicate body weight of 102 kilograms, I see that the lower arms of the rafters are at various heights, almost all of them, hard to explain without a picture.
I will get back to you tonight with a longer response to your comments and questions! Maybe I'll get some pictures too!
Member
· Västra Götaland
· 1 849 posts
The important thing is if you see if any joints and connections have given way.
Then you need to check more thoroughly. Your trusses are homemade from sawn timber and can vary quite a bit in height. This has nothing to do with strength.
If you choose to reinforce, prop up the roof and convert them into w-trusses, but this only involves 1 V on each side of the ridge. W on both sides of the ridge is only used for large spans normally (then the truss is called WW). Check examples at
http://www.traguiden.se/konstruktio...el---tabeller/tak/w-takstol-taklutning-14-14/
Your upper and lower structures look to be properly dimensioned according to the photos. I think you can sleep soundly.
Then you need to check more thoroughly. Your trusses are homemade from sawn timber and can vary quite a bit in height. This has nothing to do with strength.
If you choose to reinforce, prop up the roof and convert them into w-trusses, but this only involves 1 V on each side of the ridge. W on both sides of the ridge is only used for large spans normally (then the truss is called WW). Check examples at
http://www.traguiden.se/konstruktio...el---tabeller/tak/w-takstol-taklutning-14-14/
Your upper and lower structures look to be properly dimensioned according to the photos. I think you can sleep soundly.
I believe we agree on the matter. I just reacted to your statement that there are no signs the roof can't handle the loads. If the roof visibly sags, in my opinion, it's not designed to handle the loads, even though there's no risk of it collapsing.Autodidak1 said:
Now I don't know much about constructions, but it seems that the noggings against the eave, the spliced ones, were likely added afterwards. They are completely misplaced on a roof with a 15-degree pitch. They can cause a leverage effect and break the ridge downward under high roof load. Take a cable, as someone mentioned earlier, attach it to a drilled/bolted loop in the opposite beams on the long sides, i.e., in the middle of the building, prop up the ceiling and space in the attic, tighten the cable through the loops and use double cable clamps. I believe the long sides have "given way" at the top, and the attic floor has released slightly at the outer attachment points, perhaps due to the wrong nails in conjunction with the small angle of the roof and misplaced noggings. But that's just a theory, I haven't seen the construction on site. And yes, the noggings must be removed before the roof is propped up; otherwise, it doesn't have the desired effect. Then it's better in your case to use "wedge-sawn" plywood sheets to reinforce the trusses, at the lower edge, against the eave primarily. At the upper edge towards the ridge, the construction is held in place with the tensile load of the cable! Hope it works out!
Hello again everyone! Thanks for all the feedback and engagement!
I have a colleague and friend who is an experienced, recognized skilled carpenter. The other day, he climbed up into the attic, and we bounced ideas back and forth. There was a difference in height of up to 10 cm between some of the lower arms. We also realized that due to the work required to reinforce the rafters and then attempt to prop up the entire roof is a gamble, because we can't be sure that we'll actually get the rafters aligned in height. Furthermore, I need to obtain rough-sawn lumber since the existing measures 50x125.
We concluded that the best approach would be to tear off the sheathing, remove the upper arms from all the rafters, leaving the lower arm in place. Order new rafters and place them next to the old lower arms (to avoid tearing out the ceiling). Then put on new sheathing, roofing felt, battens, and finally the tiles.
I realize, of course, that this will make the wallet cry, but it feels like the only sensible thing to do.
A 7-meter span on the rafters and a 22.5-degree pitch will cost around 1300 SEK each including VAT.
Reflections on this?
I have a colleague and friend who is an experienced, recognized skilled carpenter. The other day, he climbed up into the attic, and we bounced ideas back and forth. There was a difference in height of up to 10 cm between some of the lower arms. We also realized that due to the work required to reinforce the rafters and then attempt to prop up the entire roof is a gamble, because we can't be sure that we'll actually get the rafters aligned in height. Furthermore, I need to obtain rough-sawn lumber since the existing measures 50x125.
We concluded that the best approach would be to tear off the sheathing, remove the upper arms from all the rafters, leaving the lower arm in place. Order new rafters and place them next to the old lower arms (to avoid tearing out the ceiling). Then put on new sheathing, roofing felt, battens, and finally the tiles.
I realize, of course, that this will make the wallet cry, but it feels like the only sensible thing to do.
A 7-meter span on the rafters and a 22.5-degree pitch will cost around 1300 SEK each including VAT.
Reflections on this?
Member
· Västra Götaland
· 1 849 posts
A simple solution, nothing to say about the prices either. Is the ceiling flat? If it is, it hasn't moved since the ceiling was put in place, and the structure hasn't moved since then either.
Are there signs that the structure is "dangerous," or do you just want it done properly?
If you're going to prop it up, it's probably just as you've come to conclude, it's impossible to get it even both on the outside of the roof and the ceiling.
Are there signs that the structure is "dangerous," or do you just want it done properly?
If you're going to prop it up, it's probably just as you've come to conclude, it's impossible to get it even both on the outside of the roof and the ceiling.
Yes, now we're talking about a garage that has aesthetic issues with the roof. It is unlikely that it wouldn't be functional.Ovanskogs said:I realize, of course, that this will make the wallet cry, but it feels like the only sensible thing to do.
Reflections on this?
Guessing that the whole event will cost around 100k + and at least the entire vacation to fix, significantly more money if you hire carpenters!
I would think long and hard before investing so much in a garage roof that probably doesn't need fixing!
The ceiling is not flat but droops a bit in the garage section, though nothing that bothers me significantly, but the construction has definitely shifted over the years.
100,000?
Trusses: 13,000:-
Tongue and groove: expensive as well, but weak tongue and groove of 17x95 costs about 5000 for my roof.
Roofing felt: haven't calculated it, but maybe 2-3000?
Batten: 1-2000?
Total about 23,000. I already have the tiles from before. Doing the work myself with the help of friends.
Of course, a more expensive solution, and I am aware that it's just a garage.
This is not set in stone and far from decided, I am still considering trying to prop up & reinforce.
100,000?
Trusses: 13,000:-
Tongue and groove: expensive as well, but weak tongue and groove of 17x95 costs about 5000 for my roof.
Roofing felt: haven't calculated it, but maybe 2-3000?
Batten: 1-2000?
Total about 23,000. I already have the tiles from before. Doing the work myself with the help of friends.
Of course, a more expensive solution, and I am aware that it's just a garage.
This is not set in stone and far from decided, I am still considering trying to prop up & reinforce.
Have you counted the correct number of trusses? Some people have a tendency to forget the first one when counting!
Good paper for your roof costs around 4000:-
Ströläkt and bärläkt 2-3000:-
3-kantslister, placed against the short sides of the råspont to properly fold the paper. Place the list 22mm outside the råspont so that the lower edgeboard lies directly against the underside of the list and against the end grain of the råspont.
ridge sealing, possibly ventilation in the roof...
30-40 000:- without tiles is my estimate if you do the work yourself!
Good luck!
Good paper for your roof costs around 4000:-
Ströläkt and bärläkt 2-3000:-
3-kantslister, placed against the short sides of the råspont to properly fold the paper. Place the list 22mm outside the råspont so that the lower edgeboard lies directly against the underside of the list and against the end grain of the råspont.
ridge sealing, possibly ventilation in the roof...
30-40 000:- without tiles is my estimate if you do the work yourself!
Good luck!
I actually think I'll skip new rafters and so on, it's too much money for a garage roof. I'm aiming to try to reinforce and possibly prop up the rafters and then align with the help of battens. Just as I was considering from the start. I'll try to get some rough-sawn lumber today!
I'll try to take some pictures during the project!
Take care!
I'll try to take some pictures during the project!
Take care!
Good choice.
I believe you have understood how to solve this permanently and safely at a reasonable price and with manageable effort.
Good luck.
I believe you have understood how to solve this permanently and safely at a reasonable price and with manageable effort.
Good luck.
Extension builder
· Onsala
· 2 023 posts
Interesting thread that might be a bit outdated, but maybe someone will take the time to reply anyway =)
I understand that trusses settle a little over time, but can you expect them to "spring back" if they are relieved? In my case, we are replacing 6 of 15 trusses with scissor trusses for more ceiling height. I have measured the height of the existing ones at the ridge and over the wall plates and found that they are about 5mm lower at the ridge than the plan and about 2mm over the supports. There are currently concrete tiles on the roof providing the load, but in connection with the replacement, the roof will be changed to lighter sheet metal.
If I order the new scissor trusses with the original dimension, do you think they will align with the existing ones when they are relieved?
But, the question is whether it really matters in practice?
I understand that trusses settle a little over time, but can you expect them to "spring back" if they are relieved? In my case, we are replacing 6 of 15 trusses with scissor trusses for more ceiling height. I have measured the height of the existing ones at the ridge and over the wall plates and found that they are about 5mm lower at the ridge than the plan and about 2mm over the supports. There are currently concrete tiles on the roof providing the load, but in connection with the replacement, the roof will be changed to lighter sheet metal.
If I order the new scissor trusses with the original dimension, do you think they will align with the existing ones when they are relieved?
But, the question is whether it really matters in practice?
Extension builder
· Onsala
· 2 023 posts
It may be added that the trusses are from '82 with approximately 9 meters span.