CLT or Loose Timber

[Trä46]

I'm unsure if I'm in the right forum, but if I'm wrong, feel free to guide me.

I will be building a new vacation home about 90 sqm in total. 1 Main house about 60 + Guest house about 30.
I've been considering building it with CLT both roof and walls, and I expect that floor, wall, and roof elements will hold up without exterior paneling/roofing. Of course, I'm also investigating building in a "traditional way" with loose timber, but since the goal is to build with as few different materials as possible (e.g. plastic and fiberglass...), I would really like to explore CLT. I've tried to find someone who has made a comparison between the different methods in terms of price and labor time, but haven't found anything. This despite there being a lot of CLT suppliers who assure how good it is... but never mention what I gain from it. So, you understand where I'm getting at, right? What do you say, do you have any experience with the same questions? Has anyone even built with CLT, and if so, what do you say, and what did you conclude? Best regards, Tomas

 

[Rickard.]

and then assume that floor, wall, and roof elements will manage without outer panel/roof.

Ehmm.. CLT the way I've seen it on constructions must be covered entirely on the outside. It's not made to be weatherproof and is often clad with paneling. The requirement for an outer roof is so obvious that I suspect you mean something else.

Floors would certainly work but how fun is it with a spruce floor with gaps between the boards as it becomes.

Interior walls and ceilings can of course just be CLT if you like it that way, but you should keep in mind that neither the electrician nor the plumber can work wirelessly, so that has to be solved in a different way than in traditional construction.

 

[anojak]

Which supplier have you looked at? Martinsons normally does not deliver such small houses unless one creates all the manufacturing documentation including appendices with littra etc. oneself.

 

[Trä46]

Ehmm.. CLT as I've seen it on construction sites has to be covered on the entire exterior. It is not made to be a weather shell and is often covered with paneling. That a roof is needed is so obvious that I suspect you mean something else.

Flooring would probably work, but how fun is it to have a spruce floor with cracks between the boards as it becomes.

Interior walls and ceilings can of course just be CLT if you like it, but you should consider that neither the electrician nor the plumber can work wirelessly, so that must be solved in a different way than in traditionally constructed buildings.

Ok, I was a bit unclear perhaps, but of course, CLT should be covered with insulation and paneling, just as the roof is covered with, for example, felt or metal.

I found this report, a few years old but very interesting. http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:535771/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

[Trä46]

Which supplier have you looked at? Martinsons usually does not deliver such small houses unless you create all the manufacturing documentation including attachments with titles, etc., yourself.

I haven't talked to any supplier yet, but there are several. Some only deliver large houses while with others, it's perfectly possible to order smaller ones. I know that there is, for example, a supplier in Switzerland or Austria, which delivers here (Stockholm) actually cheaper than from Sweden. (strangely enough..)

In this report, they compare CL, studs, concrete and I am surprised at the small difference. What is not included in this report is the additional cost for things like waste and container costs due to more material in traditional construction.

With CL, there are no problems with wiring, you simply groove or get ready-made cassettes in the delivery.

But again, what does it look like in reality? Has anyone done this for real?

 

[Rickard.]

Then it is definitely a luxury you have to pay extra for. The working time is at least the same and it is more expensive and more complicated.

 

[Trä46]

Then it is definitely a luxury you have to pay extra for. The working hours are at least the same, and it is more expensive and complicated.

Yes, it might be as you say, but if you look at the price per sqm including everything, i.e., working hours, exterior and interior cladding, insulation, work to set up the walls, etc., it differs very little according to the suppliers. I think the problem might be that there are very few carpenters who have built houses with KL and therefore have little experience. But it should really be the same principle as buying prefabricated wall elements. Right?

 

[witten]

In all honesty, I have a hard time seeing any advantages with KL in a small house; it just uses a whole lot more timber, and you can't insulate inside the frame like you do with a stud wall. KL is developed to compete with prefabricated concrete.

 

[Robert-san01]

I have built with Isotimber and KL frame.

It is no joke to get the technology into the walls!! Chainsaw, milling on the angle grinder, plunge saw, router, and chisel are some of the tools I used.

You can check the thread Leerecidence here on BH.

 

[justusandersson]

CLT is a fantastic material with great potential. Especially when you need to combine a large span with a low construction height. That might not be the case here, but the result could definitely be very exciting. The technical properties are well researched and documented. To get an idea of the costs, I suggest you contact a seller when you have a concrete idea of how it should look. It's difficult to achieve normal U-values without additional insulation, but that's a minor issue with a summer cabin.

********* Post moved here from duplicate topic ***********
/mderator

 

[Trä46]

In all honesty, I find it hard to see any advantages with CL in a small house. It just uses a whole lot more timber and you can't insulate inside the frame like you can with a stud wall. CL is developed to compete with prefabricated concrete.

Hi, you have a point, but it must be much faster to assemble than putting up studs, right? Plus, I avoid several different processes and materials and much less waste, etc. CL walls come insulated if I want, otherwise, I can just put studs and insulation on the outside.

 

[witten]

Yes, it is faster to assemble than stick-built, but for the comparison to be relevant, it is prefabricated wall blocks you should compare.

 

[Rickard.]

The KL houses I've been to have all had vapor barriers or vapor brakes and wind barriers, so I don't quite understand where you're saving on steps and materials.

But maybe you can build without them too.

 

[Trä46]

Yes, it is faster to assemble than loose lumber, but for the comparison to be relevant, it is pre-fabricated wall blocks you should compare.

You are right, thanks!

 

[Trä46]

The CLT houses I've been to have all had a vapor barrier or vapor brake and wind barrier, so I don't quite understand where you're saving on steps and number of materials.

But maybe you can also build without them.

CLT is a fantastic material with great potential. Especially when you need to combine large spans with low construction height. That may not be the case here, but the result could probably be very exciting. The technical properties are well-researched and documented. To get an idea of costs, I suggest contacting a salesperson when you have a concrete idea of what it should look like. It's hard to achieve normal U-values without additional insulation, but that's a minor issue for a summer cottage.

********* Post moved here from duplicate topic *********** /mderator

Thanks for the help!