Building an outdoor table from Pine?

[SandmanNet]

Okay, so I'm trying to find cedar at a good price, but it's crazy expensive everywhere, while equivalent dimensions in pine are ridiculously cheap.

I understand, of course, that hardwood is more expensive, but I still wonder if I can use pine? My project is an outdoor table for the patio, which will be under a roof but without walls, so even though it won't rain directly on the table, both moisture and snow will likely blow onto it.

The plan is for a really thick table (~45mm) and really large, think for at least ten people. I'm toying with the idea of welding a frame out of 40mm square tube, which means only the tabletop will be wood.

So the question is - can I even use pine? Can it be stained and then oiled/waxed properly, or will it warp right away and rot after the first season no matter what you do? What type of wood are the cheap wooden furniture sets made of?

 

[vanpire]

Lacquered or oiled pine can certainly last for several seasons if you take care of it and cover it in the winter. It's also inexpensive to replace if it gets worn.

 

[Oldboy]

It might bruise, but so can other more expensive woods.

It doesn't rot in one season.
If it's under a roof and you take care of it, it can probably last almost forever. It needs to be oiled every year.
If you use kärnfur, it might not be quite as moisture-resistant as cedar, but it's perfectly adequate if it's under a roof.

Cheap furniture sets are unlikely to be made of cedar.

I would guess the biggest problem could be discoloration of the surface if the oiling is not maintained.

I think you can certainly build the frame in wood too. Place sacrificial boards or blocks at the bottom so it can be easily repaired after 10-15 years if you "forget" to oil the underside annually.

 

[SandmanNet]

It can get damaged, but I'm sure other more expensive types of wood can as well.

It won't rot in a season.
If it stands under a roof, and you take care of it, it can probably last almost indefinitely. You need to oil it every year.
If you use kärnfura, it may not be quite as moisture-resistant as cedar, but sufficient if it's under a roof.

Cheap furniture sets are probably not in cedar.

I would think that the biggest problem might be surface discoloration if the oiling is not done.

I think you can certainly build the frame in wood too. Put sacrificial boards or sacrificial blocks at the bottom, so it's easy to repair after 10-15 years if you "forget" to oil the underside annually.

Thanks! That sounds reassuring. Yes, of course, I would take care of the table and oil it properly. Discolorations are part of the charm and surely add character. Using steel for the legs is more a style issue than because I think it will last better, steel has a tendency to rust at the drop of a hat

It seems I'll go for a pine table for a tenth of the cost then!

 

[justusandersson]

If you can get hold of core wood of pine, the table can last a very long time. The best option is to contact a smaller sawmill directly. Some form of open surface treatment is probably recommended if you want the table to remain attractive. For example, pigmented linseed oil or linseed wax. The biggest problem is the lateral movement of the boards due to moisture variations. The legs and possibly the framework must be designed to allow for this. Any glue used must be of outdoor type.

 

[SandmanNet]

Thanks for the advice! Not many "småsågar" here in Västerås though, but I'll check. Planning to glue with polyurethane glue.

 

[justusandersson]

Polyurethane glue works excellently. I have personally used it with good and lasting results. Västmanland, southern Dalarna, and Uppland must be one of the best areas in Sweden for this. Often the sawmills actually set aside boards with kärnfur because they are considered "disturbing elements"!

 

[SandmanNet]

Polyurethane adhesive works excellently. I have personally used it with good and lasting results. Västmanland, southern Dalarna, and Uppland must be one of the best areas in Sweden for this. Often the sawmills actually set aside boards with heart pine because they are considered "disturbing elements"!

Västmanland yes, Västerås no. There isn't a single sawmill in the whole town, and getting hold of iron material for private individuals is next to impossible except for the really poor selection at Bauhaus, blah.

But you have to go to Hallsta, Eskilstuna, etc., and those smaller places around to find sawmills and similar places for private individuals, so it's difficult to just swing by after work and pick up some timber/iron/other materials.

 

[KnockOnWood]

...There isn't a single saw in the entire city...

No, in the city there's mostly ASEA, sorry ABB.

You'll probably find the saws more easily a bit out in the countryside...

 

[mattiasp]

How about oak in outdoor environments? I obviously don't mean taking a ready-made glued board, because that will end in misery, but if you make your own board from straight-grained wood and glue it with waterproof glue. At least that's something I would try. If it doesn't work, at least you gain some experience. Cedar is soft and not very suitable for furniture wood.

 

[SandmanNet]

How is oak in an outdoor environment? I obviously don't mean using a ready-made glued board, as that would end in disaster, but if you make your own board from straight-grained timber glued with waterproof glue. That's something I would at least try. If it doesn't work out, at least you'll have gained some experience. Cedar is soft and not very good for furniture timber.

The advantage of cedar is that it naturally resists rot, unlike pine, which makes it suitable for outdoor furniture. Both cedar and oak are comparatively expensive.

 

[Oldboy]

Oak is naturally superb, and certainly expensive, yes.

If you have connections with a farmer, old oak fence posts can work. I have a few here. They are weathered and some are a bit worn. At one point, my wife wanted to make a wooden handle for one of her tools. I took an oak post and planed the surface, about 2 mm, underneath was fantastic and completely fresh oak.