Building a house in Besta, Dorocell, Foamsystem, Isoleca or other?
I have built a custom-designed house with Foam System and the delivery was really poor, now we are heading to the District Court with the house deal.q(;^
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I have extensive experience with Dorocell frames! The house in the picture on Dorocell's website was certainly designed by Ross Architecture (I recognize the style) and I have poured concrete in many of his houses around Mälaren. Besides admiring Pål Ross's sense for architectural forms, I would not use any material other than Dorocell's polystyrene blocks because they are the most durable—apart from the Norwegian Bewi blocks—when pouring concrete into them. Bewi blocks are unjustifiably expensive. There are about 15-18 different brands of polystyrene blocks I have poured concrete into, and the most common brand is Dorocell. The most fragile is Palikka, and those blocks also lack "teeth" in the slots (unlike all other brands), which means if you have not properly supported the wall, the blocks begin to slide along (leading to a crooked wall) when you pour concrete into them. Additionally, you cannot pour concrete into them at full wall height; you must divide the concrete pouring into two sessions per day at full height to prevent them from sliding apart (crooked wall) or cracking due to concrete pressure. I've spoken with Birger (Palikka's founder and CEO) about the problem, but he blames the concrete and casting speed even though you need a slump of 200-220 on the concrete to avoid air pockets in the blocks. And if you follow Birger's recommended casting speed...no one wants to pay for 8 extra concrete pumping hours to wait for the concrete to "set" in the bottom blocks.
If I hadn't lived in such a well-preserved timber frame house with a crawl space foundation, I would put an excavator scoop in the roof and straight into a container and pour a concrete slab with hydronic floor heating and walls with Dorocell blocks. I don't know much about the other construction techniques, but I have only positive things to say about Dorocell blocks, even regarding heating economy, and especially the thermal inertia law that concrete creates. An important aspect is also the silence in the house (mostly applies to parents of small children), you can jump in one room and still sleep well in the room next door.
My advice is: Use Dorocell blocks.
If I hadn't lived in such a well-preserved timber frame house with a crawl space foundation, I would put an excavator scoop in the roof and straight into a container and pour a concrete slab with hydronic floor heating and walls with Dorocell blocks. I don't know much about the other construction techniques, but I have only positive things to say about Dorocell blocks, even regarding heating economy, and especially the thermal inertia law that concrete creates. An important aspect is also the silence in the house (mostly applies to parents of small children), you can jump in one room and still sleep well in the room next door.
My advice is: Use Dorocell blocks.
Trust my experience, I have an independent concrete pumping company that supplies and pumps concrete in Stockholm. I would be very indiscreet if I recommended Dorocell blocks if it was only Ullared quality! I apologize if I sound harsh in tone, but what I want to convey is that if you're going to build a new house on a concrete slab... pay exorbitantly and use Bewi blocks! Pay reasonably (there are cheaper options) or rather: pay cost-effectively and use Dorocell blocks. I apologize for my tone, but I get worked up when, after more than 10 years of experience, I know what I'm talking about.....ThaSaint said:Hello everyone,
I am curious about more experiences with 'building block houses' from different manufacturers, feel free to share more experiences
//Erik
Oh no, sorry to hear that. What specifically made the delivery poor? Does anyone else have experience with the Foam system?KalleByggare said:I built a custom-designed house with Foam System and the delivery was really poor, now we're heading to the District Court with the house deal.q(;^
The majority of all styrofoam blocks used in construction burn quite well. However, since the interior walls are covered with gypsum boards, they become fire-protected and approved. I think the whole discussion about how flammable the styrofoam blocks are has become so exaggerated - there are 100 other completely unprotected items in the house that are at least as flammable - which are not protected by gypsum boards.
There is much that can burn indoors, but it's advantageous if the insulation in the wall doesn't melt and catch fire (and quickly spread to the rest of the house) if the sofa catches fire.Tyresö said:
Gypsum boards protect against fire, but they don't help when electrical boxes melt and leave holes right through.
It also places great demands on the execution at joints and connections of all kinds. Around windows and up towards the attic, it's not uncommon for the foam to be left unprotected.
I have also pumped concrete into completely non-combustible styrofoam blocks. A customer told me that he would gladly pay me double the rate if I could set fire to a scrap piece of a styrofoam block. Of course, I fetched my oscillating propane torch (= 2200+ degrees!). It ended with the customer laughing at my manic attempts to get the styrofoam to catch fire. I can't remember what brand of styrofoam it was - but if it doesn't burn from the propane flame, then it doesn't burn at all.
So there are indeed non-combustible styrofoam blocks - I can admit that I was surprised - I thought I would surprise the customer with my powerful torch...
So there are indeed non-combustible styrofoam blocks - I can admit that I was surprised - I thought I would surprise the customer with my powerful torch...
Krawk said:
Do you mean like a heat shield for NASA's space rocket when the rocket is entering a new atmosphere?
The principle behind an ablative thermal shield is not that it is non-combustible. The insulating ability, however, is very important. The Chinese have used wood for shields for re-entry to Earth. The atmosphere here, as is well known, also contains oxygen.
But what suggestions do you have for its use? The fact is that while the styrofoam did not catch fire or emit smoke, it did shrink. So, if such a house starts to burn, the styrofoam would still need to be replaced. However, as a fireproof frame, it is as non-flammable as concrete, meaning not at all.
"The shrinking" is due to the material melting. The same thing happens if you heat ordinary EPS.
The next step is that the melted material begins to evaporate/carbonize and then burn.
Polystyrene is essentially fluffy oil in solid form. No additives or marketing changes that.
Applications for non-combustible polystyrene? Well, instead of ceramics in wood-burning stoves? Insulation for exhaust systems? Or why not a welding clamp?
When you're done testing those ideas, you can make a fire extinguisher with diesel. As you probably know, you can extinguish a torch by dipping it in a diesel drum, so it must be a non-combustible liquid.
The next step is that the melted material begins to evaporate/carbonize and then burn.
Polystyrene is essentially fluffy oil in solid form. No additives or marketing changes that.
Applications for non-combustible polystyrene? Well, instead of ceramics in wood-burning stoves? Insulation for exhaust systems? Or why not a welding clamp?
When you're done testing those ideas, you can make a fire extinguisher with diesel. As you probably know, you can extinguish a torch by dipping it in a diesel drum, so it must be a non-combustible liquid.
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You're probably right that the Styrofoam will catch fire sooner or later, but if it's in a concrete frame, you have plenty of time to get out of the building. I'm thinking of building a wood-fired sauna with that construction technique - insulated concrete slab and concrete-filled Styrofoam walls... I'm in the concrete industry, so that construction technique will be cheaper for me than building a wooden frame.
If it starts to burn and I don't have time to get out:
do you think I care whether it's the smoke or the fire that kills me?
It doesn't matter if the house is built in stone/ the roof+furniture burns, wood/ that burns, styrofoam, PUR burns + gas.........
It becomes more important with the indoor climate as well as the price it costs.
do you think I care whether it's the smoke or the fire that kills me?
It doesn't matter if the house is built in stone/ the roof+furniture burns, wood/ that burns, styrofoam, PUR burns + gas.........
It becomes more important with the indoor climate as well as the price it costs.