Water glass-Everseal-What is it?

[andersmc]

Waterglass is a true panacea. It has countless uses. If you're building models of sailing ships and want them to look like they're in the wind, you can moisten the sails with waterglass and blow on them with a fan until they dry. They will then harden in that position.
Another very fun thing to try is a chemical garden. Highly recommended if you haven't tried it before.

 

[Tina123]

From what I understand, water glass is not diffusion-tight, but waterproof. It's probably best to call Everseal and hear what they think the product can be used for...

Yes, the guy who has been here and suggested that we treat the basement floor with water glass works for Everseal. Apparently, the concrete becomes diffusion-open but not completely waterproof. The concrete is still dry and you can "lay any floor on top of it." If you then apply a layer of Epoxy, the concrete becomes completely waterproof + it protects against radon.

I just find it so strange that we haven't heard of this method for treating basement floors, I feel skeptical...

One can also wonder how long the water glass lasts, as someone wrote above.

 

[Stringfellow Hawke]

Yes, the guy who suggested we treat the basement floor with water glass works for Everseal. Apparently, the concrete becomes diffusion-open but not completely waterproof. The concrete still becomes dry, and you can "lay any floor on top of it." If you then apply a layer of Epoxy, the concrete becomes completely waterproof + it protects against radon. I just find it so strange that we haven't heard of this method for treating basement floors, I feel skeptical... One might also wonder how long the water glass lasts as someone wrote above.

If it sounds too good to be true, it often is.

Everseal is a product used by builders who don't do it right, i.e., wait for the concrete to dry, that's my experience...

Then the experience of mixing chemicals and moisture is kind of mediocre...

 

[snuttjulle]

All methods where one tries to keep out moisture on the "wrong side" of concrete work poorly in the long run. Tends to fail over time.

 

[wis]

Some people in this thread are completely off track. Waterglass (potassium silicate or sodium silicate or a mixture of both) is among the oldest substances for treating concrete. It is strongly basic (pH 10) and you should protect your skin and eyes when applying it. There are no known dangerous gases or later emissions. The waterglass reacts chemically with the concrete, allowing only water in gas form to pass through, which is why diffusion-tight materials like foam plastic or mineral wool are NOT recommended on top. If you plan to paint the concrete, you should use a diffusion-open paint.
I would not apply epoxy on waterglass unless the concrete slab is heated. Epoxy is diffusion-tight, meaning no water can penetrate even in gas form. If there is a risk the slab will become cold in winter, moisture beneath the epoxy can cause frost heaving.
The only problem I can see with waterglass is that it often results in salt deposits (as water vapor passing through the concrete takes some salts with it), which are not dangerous but quite unsightly. Does anyone have a good tip on how to avoid this?

 

[John J]

I have used water glass when casting small ponds to prevent water from seeping through the concrete, which it otherwise does, and it has worked great.

I just mixed a few drops/kg into the concrete during casting.

 

[Tyresö]

I have used waterglass when casting small ponds to prevent water from running through the concrete, which it otherwise does, and it has worked great.

I just mixed a few drops/kg into the concrete during casting.

I have read all the information about waterglass and it's not 100% impermeable - the impermeability is about 85 - 90%. I haven't read anywhere that you should mix waterglass into fresh concrete - I've only read that waterglass is a post-treatment that is applied to cured concrete to make it denser.

In your case, I don't think it's the waterglass that made the concrete dense - the pond automatically becomes dense if the water-cement ratio (VCT) in the concrete is less than 0.50.

 

[Stringfellow Hawke]

Some in this thread are completely mistaken. Waterglass (potassium silicate or sodium silicate or a mixture of both) is among the oldest substances used to treat concrete. It is strongly alkaline (ph 10) and one should protect skin and eyes when applying it. There are no known dangerous gases or later emissions. The waterglass reacts chemically with the concrete and ensures that the concrete can then only let through water in gas form; hence, a diffusion-tight material like foam plastic or mineral wool is NOT recommended on top. If you want to paint the concrete, you should use a diffusion-open paint.
I would not apply epoxy on waterglass unless the concrete slab is heated. Epoxy is diffusion-tight; no water penetrates, not even in gas form. If there's a risk of the slab getting cold in winter, the moisture under the epoxy can cause frost shattering.
The only problem I can see with waterglass is that it often results in salt efflorescence (as water vapor is transported through the concrete, it carries some salts), which are not dangerous but quite unsightly. Does anyone have a good tip on how to avoid this?

You sound like a salesman...

The waterglass reacts chemically with the concrete and ensures that the concrete can then only let through water in gas form

Please explain how drying otherwise occurs? Does the concrete let through water in liquid form, or perhaps solid form?

The only problem I can see with waterglass

I see several problems... We serious builders usually let the concrete dry through traditional drying before putting anything tight on it...

Read on Everseal's website:

EverSeal® deep impregnation seals concrete against liquid transport by 95-98% at 100 m water column.
EverSeal® deep impregnation lowers the alkalinity of the concrete surface by 100-1000 times (the pH value is lowered by 2-3 units).
EverSeal® deep impregnation reduces relative humidity to a guaranteed below 85%.

If it lowers pH, shouldn't it be acidic? Lowered pH risks accelerating the corrosion of reinforcement.
No, it probably hardly lowers RH, possibly at the surface; in an RBK measurement, RH is measured at 40% of the depth.

 

[John J]

I have read all the facts about waterglass and it doesn't become 100% sealed - the sealing is about 85 - 90%. I haven't read anywhere that you should mix waterglass into fresh concrete - I have only read that waterglass is a post-treatment that you apply to fully cured concrete to make it more sealed.

In your case, I don't think it's the waterglass that made the concrete sealed - the dam becomes automatically sealed if the WCT value in the concrete is below 0.50.

Seems strange that you who are so knowledgeable about concrete haven't heard of this.

Nitor Vattenglas I've used and it's sodium silicate i.e. essentially liquid glass.

Given that the same thickness and same mixing of concrete using waterglass leaked a lot, I will continue to believe in waterglass.

 

[Tyresö]

"John J"

What do you mean that I haven't heard of it? Are you saying that the few drops you mix into the concrete make the concrete 100% waterproof?

Waterglass is a substance that is applied to already cured concrete - and if you read some posts in the thread, you'll find that more than just me believe that waterglass does not create 100% waterproof concrete. Or better yet, do as I did, Google waterglass and read up on all the facts.

 

[Bezt]

The water glass reacts chemically with the concrete, making the concrete only able to let water through in gas form; thus, it is NOT recommended to put any diffusion-tight material on top, such as polystyrene or mineral wool. If painting on the concrete, one should use a breathable paint.
I would not apply epoxy on water glass unless the concrete slab is heated. Epoxy is diffusion-tight, no water passes through, not even in gas form. If there's a risk the slab might get cold in the winter, the moisture trapped under the epoxy could cause frost spalling.

That all epoxy is diffusion-tight is something you can discuss with Nils Malmgren.
http://www.epoxibutiken.se/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=34
NM Floor 50 Super is not diffusion-tight, which makes it possible to paint on damp surfaces and on surfaces where there is a risk of moisture.

 

[John J]

"John J"

What do you mean that I haven't heard of? Do you mean that the few drops you mix in the concrete make the concrete 100% sealed?

Water glass is an agent that you apply to already hardened concrete - and if you read in some posts in the thread, more than one person considers that water glass does not create 100% sealed concrete. Or even better, do as I do, Google water glass and read up on all the facts.

Excuse me, but why should I google when I have tested Water glass myself several times with good results?

Do you trust more what you read than what you experience yourself?

 

[byggare henke]

you know that water glass has been used to preserve eggs

 

[Tyresö]

Excuse me, but why should I google when I have tested Vattenglas myself several times with good results?

Do you trust what you read more than what you experience yourself?

You have to understand that I realize your concrete knowledge is too low for me to have a chance to go through why one or the other thing in a concrete mix. I'm not trying to belittle you - understand me right. You definitely have knowledge in other areas far beyond my understanding - but it's impossible for me to explain how all the parameters in a concrete mix create different properties in cured concrete, depending on whether you increase or decrease the amount of any ingredient in the mix.

I have never in my life been satisfied with what I see or experience - I have never settled for less than knowing why - pure facts are the most important to me, that's the only thing that has always mattered to me - regardless of what it is about and regardless of whether I have to stay awake all night to figure out why. That's how I function.

I think it's better if we leave the thread to TS.

 

[Tyresö]

you know that waterglass has been used to preserve eggs

Oh yes. I'm not entirely sure I would want to eat such eggs, my grandmother has told me enough.