"Online welding school - thread" requested.

[Bjarven]

Hello! I'm planning to have a wrought iron railing for a newly built patio 6*4m and I absolutely don't want to pay the per-meter prices that are current in Örebro right now (1500-2000 SEK/lpm). I want to weld it myself (or with the help of a welding-savvy neighbor/friend). Where do I start? What type of welder do I need? I know others on the forum have thought like me regarding wrought-iron products. Can someone knowledgeable post a welding school? Explain which types of welders should be used for different jobs/materials. What prerequisites are required? Workspaces, welding tables, etc. What accessories are needed? Welding clamps etc. /Stefan

 

[blackadder]

a small 220v electric welder works fine for running 2.5mm rods and is what I would recommend if you don't have a very large budget.

a flat surface, preferably metal-clad, or a large sheet of metal if you can get hold of one (10mm thick or more)

some welding clamps are always good.

and an angle grinder.

and definitely safety glasses, hearing protection, and gloves.

remember that welding burns bare skin so long sleeves are preferable (unless you're a super cool bike builder in the USA because they don't seem to mind that kind of thing)

then you're good to go, if you have a large enough table you can sketch out the railing on the table beforehand. it usually helps if you need angles or similar.

it's hard to explain how to weld, but if you're using a rod, hold the rod slightly tilted towards the base and you'll see the melt closest to the rod, then comes the slag, try on some scrap pieces and try to see where the melt is and how it behaves.

If you're going to galvanize, it's important that you have knocked off the slag properly, otherwise, it will look bad after the galvanizing.

 

[Bjarven]

Thanks for the start Blackadder!
Found a "Handbook of Electric Welding" at Biltema for 120:-.
As I understand it, the challenge with a railing is:
1. maintaining squareness
2. avoiding twists in the construction.
3. getting nice weld seams as an amateur.

But with today's prices on wrought iron, I'm willing to accept a few defects.
/Bjarven

 

[tallmilan]

Manufacture a jig and practice on all the metal pieces you can find.
Practice and jig save time ...

 

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

Thanks for the start Blackadder!
Found a "Handbook in Electrical Welding" at Biltema for 120:-.
As I understand it, the challenge with a railing:
1. maintaining perpendicularity
2. avoiding twists in the construction.
3. getting nice weld seams as an amateur.

But with today's prices on ironwork, I'm willing to accept some defects.
/Bjarven

Yes, keep in mind that the steel shrinks as it cools, so if for example you want a 90-degree angle and weld on the inside of it, it needs to be a few degrees larger than 90 when you start. Another mistake beginners make is not allowing the weld to penetrate enough, resulting in a bad and shallow seam (i.e., the added material "sits on top" and the weld doesn't achieve full strength. You shouldn't apply it even half as fast as you think... ;-) An approved weld would break in the material about 50mm from the actual weld seam, so if you pull and bend a bit by feel, the seam itself shouldn't crack (provided the geometry isn't entirely unreasonable, of course).

Other than that, there are no major complications; in the car industry, the welding course takes two weeks (though we did it in one.) However, I did have a teacher who'd seen thousands of 19-year-olds pass by over the 20-30 years or so he had been involved. He was eerily skilled at identifying what mistakes you made, why, and which setting led to it.

And hearing protection is good, not because welding is actually noisy, but you dare more if it's quieter. And as mentioned, practice, practice, practice. You won't get it right the first time. If you have more questions, go ahead, we'll help as best as we can.

 

[79:an]

Do not underestimate "spot welding." If you are going to weld a railing with various squiggles, I recommend laying it out on something flat and then spot welding everything together before welding the rest. This way, you avoid a good deal of twisting in the construction.
Otherwise, I recommend that, as a novice, you consider a used MIG welder and buy a small gas bottle with MISON or carbon dioxide. Much easier to weld with as a beginner, just test weld on a piece so it flows evenly and sounds good.

 

[holmertz]

MIG welder or stick welder - ideally, you'd want both. Jula now has a stick welder on their Bargain Corner for 399:- Cheaper than second-hand on Blocket. It seems to be sold only by mail order. A DC stick welder is nicer, but then you're looking at a price of 2500:- If you want to weld sheet metal, a MIG welder is what you should buy, also good for light construction welding. A "regular" MIG welder costs from 2000:- and up, and if you want welding gas, you'll need to buy it separately. Simpler gasless MIG welders are cheaper. All MIG welders can be run with flux-cored wire, eliminating the need for gas.

For your wrought iron railing, the cheap Jula welder is completely sufficient; you must secure it up to 16 amps on the outlet you are using.

 

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

Mig welding or stick welding - yes, ideally you want both.

Exactly, you can MIG (actually MAG) weld almost as thick as you want, especially if you do spray arc welding instead of short arc. But after doing both, I think MIG/MAG is best suited for thinner sheets. (But then again, I've never mastered the spray arc) It's not without reason that electric welding is still the most common in the shipbuilding industry. ;-)

All mig welders can run with flux-cored wire so you can skip the gas.

I've never tried that myself (it wasn't available when I learned). How does it compare to using gas?

 

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

Much easier to weld with as a beginner, just test weld on a piece so that it flows evenly and sounds good.

Yes, but then these beginners inevitably end up with poor penetration (and then the quality controller says "redo, do it right" But it's not hard, it just requires a little practice and an idea of what a good result looks like (you should get just the right sized bead on the back of the sheet). Then stick welding isn't that hard either, as long as you can detach the rod the first few times you fail to ignite it and it burns stuck. ;-) Because that happens. And it sounds pretty bad and is a bit stressful to hear the welder struggle and whine.

I would say that welds that require two hands (gas/TIG) take longer to perfect because you have to control both the melt and with the other hand apply material at the right pace. As a beginner, either one or the other is right, but never both at the same time. Definitely requires more skill (like gas cutting sheet metal with neat and clean cuts and good release; I don't think I could manage that today without some practice.)

Also, spot welding is probably even easier, but aiming with tongs and pressing a button is something you could teach to a reasonably intelligent chimpanzee, so we won't count that.

 

[Bjarven]

Thanks for all the info. I'll evaluate and absorb it.
It's interesting to get input on which technique is easiest combined with suitability for specifically wrought iron railing.
I feel humble in the face of the task. It will be tough to learn, but if I break even economically from buying from a craftsman, at least I've learned to weld for the money.
/Bjarven

 

[holmertz]

Thanks for all the info. I'll evaluate and absorb it.
Interesting to get input on which technique is easiest combined with appropriateness for wrought iron railing.
I feel humble about the task. It will be tough to learn, but if I break even financially compared to buying from a craftsman, at least I will have learned welding for the money.
/Bjarven

Although I currently have a MIG welder, if I needed to weld 10 meters of deck railing, I would probably buy a cheap stick welder for the purpose.

 

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

Although I currently have a MIG welder, if I needed to weld 10 meters of balcony railing, I would probably buy a cheap stick welder for the purpose.

I have access to both and would, as mentioned, also choose the latter.

To the person who asked first: Make sure you have plenty of material to practice on and expect to have to discard the equivalent of a railing, and it should be fine. And as mentioned, even if it doesn't work out, you've learned something and hopefully had fun. Just don't set anything on fire; that's not as enjoyable. ;-) Keep it clean, dry, and neat where you weld, and keep everything flammable at a safe distance. Also, make sure you have a good connection for the grounding clamp, and remember that you are dealing with current, not high voltage, but still. You shouldn't cut corners with it, because it can backfire.

 

[snickarboden]

I am far from being a welder, but I still want to say that the stick welder is incredibly underrated. In most cases, I weld better with a stick than with a Mig, although I absolutely loved gas and Tig in courses. I refuse to use gasless Mig; it often spits out something that's supposed to look like a joint, but I've never gotten any control over the melt with one.

It feels like it never gets a chance to start melting before something happens, and then you have to start over from the beginning again *sigh*

Perhaps I need to take courses again *S* but I prefer to stick with the stick welder, and for a stair railing, it's probably the best choice too. Just chip away the slag and preferably get a wire brush for the angle grinder and safety goggles.

Kent

 

[79:an]

The TIG is an exceptionally good weld for certain things, but I mostly use the stick myself, however, we have a nice ESAB MIG at work which is perfect for some sheet metal and when you need to "tack" your constructions together. Personally, I bought an inverter welder for my own garage, even works for welding regular exhaust systems with.......

 

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

In most cases, I weld better with a stick than with a Mig, but I absolutely loved gas and Tig during the courses.

Question of settings perhaps? And by that, I mean the welder... ;-) On the other hand, you enjoy TIG and there are even more knobs to adjust, so it's a weaker hypothesis (no voltage regulation, of course). What becomes the problem with your MIG welds? Poor penetration, pores, or what? I've welded everything from 0.6 to 5mm (even occasional 10mm) material with MAG with good results, so it's not impossible.

As a naturalized Gothenburger, it goes against me to advertise anyone other than ESAB but Miller actually has a slightly better site with books, pictures, and video on all kinds of electric welding http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/

P.S. I found the following quote on Miller's site that was just too good: "Stick welding got its name not because the electrode looks like a stick, but because EVERYONE sticks the rod to the workpiece when learning how to weld." So true as it is said.