Hello!
I have bought a turn-of-the-century apartment that we plan to renovate quite extensively.
Among other things, we intend to move the kitchen to the room adjacent to the living room and replace the old kitchen with a bedroom.
The little snag with the apartment is that the bathroom is relatively small, about 1.8x1.8 meters, where both corners at the back are slightly built out due to ventilation pipes (or whatever it's called) running inside. We have two ideas on how to expand the bathroom, one of which involves extending it towards the hallway. In that case, the door opening to the room next door (where the new kitchen is planned) would need to be moved further to the left in the picture. I'm relatively sure that wall is load-bearing. I understand that approval and a quality manager and all that are needed to carry out the job, but what would the job cost approximately? Are we talking about 50k SEK or around 200k SEK? Or even more?
I'm all thumbs, so if you're used to providing answers or tips, please explain it like you would to a five-year-old haha.
For your information, I am aware that the neighbor upstairs has done the same type of renovation (see picture number 2 of their floor plan, which we intend to emulate).
I hope I have explained enough for you to understand my question!
Thank you in advance!
I have bought a turn-of-the-century apartment that we plan to renovate quite extensively.
Among other things, we intend to move the kitchen to the room adjacent to the living room and replace the old kitchen with a bedroom.
The little snag with the apartment is that the bathroom is relatively small, about 1.8x1.8 meters, where both corners at the back are slightly built out due to ventilation pipes (or whatever it's called) running inside. We have two ideas on how to expand the bathroom, one of which involves extending it towards the hallway. In that case, the door opening to the room next door (where the new kitchen is planned) would need to be moved further to the left in the picture. I'm relatively sure that wall is load-bearing. I understand that approval and a quality manager and all that are needed to carry out the job, but what would the job cost approximately? Are we talking about 50k SEK or around 200k SEK? Or even more?
I'm all thumbs, so if you're used to providing answers or tips, please explain it like you would to a five-year-old haha.
For your information, I am aware that the neighbor upstairs has done the same type of renovation (see picture number 2 of their floor plan, which we intend to emulate).
I hope I have explained enough for you to understand my question!
Thank you in advance!
Welcome to the forum!
Unfortunately, it's quite impossible to estimate those types of costs in the forum. It depends on so many factors, such as how the walls are constructed. Since you have a neighbor who has done the same thing, it's a good idea to ask the neighbor.
Unfortunately, it's quite impossible to estimate those types of costs in the forum. It depends on so many factors, such as how the walls are constructed. Since you have a neighbor who has done the same thing, it's a good idea to ask the neighbor.
I agree with BirgitS. Costs are difficult to discuss here. I am very careful about expressing opinions on that. The drawing of your apartment is a modern-style renovation plan. To be able to assess the implications of your ideas, one needs access to an original drawing. The thick wall where you want to move the door is definitely load-bearing, the question is just how. This can have a significant impact on costs. Steel beams were often used as lintels over door openings. If you're lucky, it might be a simple intervention; if you're unlucky, it could be very extensive. You can run new plumbing connections to the kitchen via the bathroom, so that shouldn't be an issue in itself. Just don’t copy the closet interior that the neighbor has in their bedroom. It won’t turn out very pleasant.
Thank you both for your responses. I understand that it's complex and therefore difficult to estimate costs. I was mostly thinking if in the absolute cheapest case it would still cost several hundreds of thousands, then we can dismiss the idea right away before investigating further.J justusandersson said:
The house is from the turn of the century, and I have obtained all available building permits from the City Planning Office. How do I see on the original drawing regarding what you mentioned about steel beams and supports? Is there a specific drawing/sketch I should look for and upload here as an image?
Once again, a big thank you for taking the time to answer.
Best regards,
Anton
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So, estimating costs is extremely difficult.. you might have a family friend in construction who does the work for 0kr (excluding materials) or a greedy company that does it for 100kkr. Based on what I see, I would estimate that the value of the labor is not worth more than 20-30kkr, but you should consult at least three companies to take a look and request quotes. After that, you can form a better estimation of the cost landscape.
Thanks for the response! Unfortunately, I don't have such contacts and don't have the skills to do any of the work myself. But it seems like the work might not be as expensive as I feared if you're lucky.MrJay said:
Does anyone have an estimate of how many hours a building engineer/structural engineer needs to calculate a solution and roughly what they charge per hour? I assume there are some additional costs to the SBK for the application and for the inspection manager. What's the approximate cost for that? If these costs are as difficult to estimate as my initial questions, I apologize in advance.
/ Anton
Start with a floor plan. It's not certain that there are specific construction drawings.
Here are the original drawings. For your information, the apartment is on the second floor, and it's the one you see at the bottom right in the picture on the floor plan. (They have remodeled stairwells and entrances to the apartments since then, as you can notice).J justusandersson said:
A bit funny, I have actually been inside that house, on the corner of Kastellgatan - Risåsgatan in Kommendantsängen in Gothenburg. The drawings are a bit messy when trying to see details, but I am pretty sure that the openings in the thick walls are arched masonry. If you’re going to move the opening, it’s probably easiest to reinforce the new opening with steel beams. The arrangement requires a new structural design and a skilled mason. It might be worth considering an alternative that involves the entrance to the kitchen being from the living room.
Haha, there you go! I think it's a very beautiful house.
Okay, so it sounds like there's quite a lot of work required in that case if I'm interpreting you correctly? I'll try to get in touch with the former apartment owner on the floor above who did the same job in 2015 to see how they did it. Is there any way to reuse any calculations that were done then? Or would it be entirely different calculations because that apartment is on the floor above?
Yes, one option is to completely close the opening and just use the double doors from the living room if we want to extend the bathroom towards the hall. Option 2 is to extend the bathroom towards one of the bedrooms and use the enclosure where the ventilation ducts go as a shower divider kind of. But it seems smarter to take up the space in the large hall rather than making one bedroom smaller to expand the bathroom.
Thanks for the reply again!
/ Anton
Okay, so it sounds like there's quite a lot of work required in that case if I'm interpreting you correctly? I'll try to get in touch with the former apartment owner on the floor above who did the same job in 2015 to see how they did it. Is there any way to reuse any calculations that were done then? Or would it be entirely different calculations because that apartment is on the floor above?
Yes, one option is to completely close the opening and just use the double doors from the living room if we want to extend the bathroom towards the hall. Option 2 is to extend the bathroom towards one of the bedrooms and use the enclosure where the ventilation ducts go as a shower divider kind of. But it seems smarter to take up the space in the large hall rather than making one bedroom smaller to expand the bathroom.
Thanks for the reply again!
/ Anton
Hello again, thanks for your answers!J justusandersson said:
Just a quick question again. You mentioned in your first post in the thread that there can be easier and significantly harder interventions to make in a load-bearing wall. Where do "murade valv" and reinforcement with steel beams fall on that scale?
/ Anton
Definitely more difficult.
Not the answer I wanted to get, but not much to do about it. Thank you for your help and expertise! What do masonry vaults mean more in practice? Tried googling but couldn't find a clear answer. Does it mean it is a brick wall? Or is it concrete that the wall is made of?
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Then you must be googling very poorly, there is plenty of material about masonry arches, for example:
Also found in text form which you can download, but probably overkill for general understanding (not just about arches, but partly):
https://docplayer.se/64158426-Murverk-material-konstruktion-hantverk-hallfasthet-och-barformaga.html
Masonry arch:
Also found in text form which you can download, but probably overkill for general understanding (not just about arches, but partly):
https://docplayer.se/64158426-Murverk-material-konstruktion-hantverk-hallfasthet-och-barformaga.html
Masonry arch:
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Thank you for this!
It's in my layman's mind that I can't quite understand why one would build an arch instead of just a "regular horizontal" if the sole purpose is to act as a load-bearing wall. Or is it just over the actual opening in the wall that the arch goes?
If so, how does this affect if I make a new opening in the wall and secure it with, for example, a steel beam, and then "just" cover the old opening in the wall?
/ Anton
It's in my layman's mind that I can't quite understand why one would build an arch instead of just a "regular horizontal" if the sole purpose is to act as a load-bearing wall. Or is it just over the actual opening in the wall that the arch goes?
If so, how does this affect if I make a new opening in the wall and secure it with, for example, a steel beam, and then "just" cover the old opening in the wall?
/ Anton