According to your drawing, the floor structure is about 250 mm thick. Additionally, there is a concrete topping of a few cm. It consists of so-called TT-cassettes. They can be prestressed, so you can't just make holes in them any way you want. It's safest to first find out who the manufacturer is and then try to obtain some form of documentation. There are probably quite complete structural drawings at the Building Committee. The project requires structural engineering competence.
According to your drawing, the beam structure is about 250 mm thick. Additionally, there is a concrete overlay of a few cm. It consists of so-called TT-cassettes. They might be prestressed, so you can't just make holes in them any way you like. The safest bet is probably to first find out who the manufacturer is and then try to get some sort of documentation. There are likely quite complete K-drawings at the Building Committee. The project requires structural engineering expertise.
Yes, I sent an email to Strängbetong.
The idea is to chip up the old pipes, a neighbor did it after a leak. It was tough for those who did it but went well.
The nerve-wracking part is moving the floor drain, but with an overlay similar to the ledge at the end, grooves no deeper than 30-40 mm and down to 60-70 mm are needed.
In the middle of the room where the existing pipes go, there is a substantial concrete mass cast underneath.
As long as you are careful and follow the documentation, there should not be any problem. TT cassettes became popular precisely because they could be fairly easily combined with ductwork for ventilation and plumbing, etc.
As long as you are careful and follow the documentation, there should be no problem. TT-cassettes became popular precisely because they could easily be combined with ductwork for ventilation and plumbing, etc.
It should work out! Do you have any tips for checking the concrete thickness? It's the area closest to the intended position of the floor drain that might be sensitive (then the concrete slab will soon be there). But as you say, it’s cast on top, so 30-40 mm down that stretch should be okay, I think. Otherwise, it will be difficult, and we would have to reconsider.
Unfortunately, I don't have a great tip for accurately measuring thickness other than using a laser gauge. It should be stated in the technical description.
The floor slab is a cast-in-place slab known as a Kaiser slab, which was cast with large formwork to create T-profiles in the concrete. (TT-cassettes are prefabricated elements that have a similar appearance but are not what you have in the house)
It is usually possible to make holes and run pipes between the "legs/beams" in the slab, but under no circumstances should you make any modifications in other areas. Along exterior walls and other load-bearing walls, there may also be connecting reinforcement that should also be avoided. If you're lucky, the "special drawing" referenced by the document you have posted might be found in the municipal archives.
The floor structure is a site-cast floor structure known as a Kaiser floor, which was cast with large void formers to create T-profiles in the concrete. (TT-cassettes are prefabricated elements with a similar appearance, but that's not what you have in the house)
Making holes and running pipes between the "legs/ beams" in the floor structure usually works excellently, but under no circumstances should you make alterations in other areas. Along outer walls and other load-bearing walls, there may also be connection reinforcement, which should also be avoided. If you're lucky, the "special drawing" that the document you posted a picture of refers to is in the municipality's archive.
Received a bunch of drawings from the city planning office. Unfortunately, the drawing was not included. We are doing an overlay for the relocation of the floor drain, so we only need to make a groove in the current overlay on the floor structure of 30 mm (measured with a 100 mm high floor drain and a slope of 1 cm/m). I checked with Strängbetong, who couldn't find anything in their archive (but the neighbor was convinced that they were the ones who did the work).
Between some of the legs, a large concrete slab has been made underneath where the current drainage is (counter-casting underneath).
Hot and cold water seem to lie in the hole space, however, and then go up into the wall.
A neighbor has done a similar renovation. The pipes were no problem to replace (other than being tough to chisel up), but when chiseling for the relocation of the floor drain, he went through the floor structure. However, he did not do an overlay of 70 mm like we are going to do.
Have received a bunch of drawings from the city planning office. Unfortunately, the drawing was not included. We are doing a topping for moving the floor drain, then we only need to make a groove in the current topping of the slab at 30 mm (counted with a 100 mm high floor drain and a slope of 1 cm/m). I checked with Strängbetong who couldn't find anything in their archive (but the neighbor was convinced that it was them who did the job).
Between some of the legs, they made a large concrete fill underneath where the current drain is (counter-casting underneath).
Hot and cold water seem to be in the hollow space, though, and then go up into the wall.
A neighbor has done a similar renovation. The pipes were no problem to replace (other than being difficult to chip up) but when it was time to chip for moving the floor drain, he went through the slab. However, he did not make a 70 mm topping like we are going to.
It usually works out well with such maneuvers, but frankly, you are applying about 100kg/m2 in dead weight when you do a new topping. Of course, it depends on the exact density of the topping. Probably, the slab is not dimensioned for this.
It usually goes well with such maneuvers, but bluntly put, you're adding about 100kg/m2 in dead weight when you make a new overlay. It depends, of course, on the exact density in the overlay. Probably, the floor structure is not designed for this.
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It's a bit nerve-racking, the whole thing. It has worked for neighbors, but I also feel that I would like to have better control than that.
The question is how to proceed? Chasing the original drawings seems a bit like chasing a ghost. Difficult to obtain.
I think that the underside overlay for existing pipes also contributes to increased load-bearing capacity?
Should support braces be used when doing the overlay?
Well, I guess the encasement around the wells is primarily to actually anchor the well and perhaps to dampen noise from the drain to the apartment below. Simply put, you could consider the "T-beams" as the beams in a wooden floor structure and the concrete (the thin part) between them as the floorboard on top of these.
The thin part is normally not sensitive to drilling; if you need to make any modifications to the floor structure, that's where you should do it. Do you know if the concrete beams run along the room in the photo or across?
Supporting during casting doesn't make a direct difference when it's a self-leveling compound that you're using.
The overlay can also be done in cellular concrete. This reduces the weight to about 35-40kg/m2 including a thin layer of leveling compound for applying a waterproofing layer. I've used it myself recently, not sure if I'm completely sold on the material but it has its uses.
The overlay can be done in cellular concrete as well. It reduces the weight to about 35-40kg/m2 including a thin layer of leveling compound for applying a waterproofing layer.
I have used it myself recently, not sure if I'm completely sold on the material but it has its applications.
Sounds interesting, do you think/know if it's suitable for a bathroom with tiles? What makes you not completely sold?
If not, I guess lightweight concrete might work?
(this one or similar: [link])
Yes, that product works, it's the same thing just with a slightly different name. Cement with foam plastic beads/EPS/polystyrene. A dear child has many names.
I used cellular concrete from Finja myself. It probably wasn't mixed well enough because after hardening, the top 1-2 cm was basically just foam plastic beads. It could be scraped off with just fingers, so I had to scrape the entire surface with a steel brush until I got down to fresh/hard cellular concrete, so to speak. But if you do it right from the start, you can avoid that little bonus task!
After that casting, you lay a thin leveling compound to create a good surface for the waterproofing layer.
I think it is a questionable solution to create slopes for sewer pipes through overlaying, regardless of the type of concrete used. It is fundamentally wrong and means postponing the problems. With hollow-core slabs, TT-cassettes, or Kaiser-type, you accommodate the necessary slope on the underside of the slab in the hollow space.
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It's the area closest to the intended position of the floor drain that might be sensitive (then the concrete slab will soon be there). But as you say, it’s cast on top, so 30-40 mm down that stretch should be okay, I think. Otherwise, it will be difficult, and we would have to reconsider.Misacsson said: