Is Cellplast a Future Firebomb?

[useless]

"The firefighting efforts were complicated because the house was built with polystyrene, an insulation that has become increasingly common in recent years and is very flammable."
https://www.tv4.se/artikel/2UE551X3dF9hdZUMwDLhWl/storbrand-i-flerfamiljshus-risk-att-taket-rasar

More and more people are choosing to insulate above ground with polystyrene and, for example, sprayed PIR/PUR to save a few extra centimeters of floor space or ceiling height. Will this pose problems for the rescue services in the future?

 

[Appendix]

The existence of Styrofoam has been discussed in various rounds.

There is a thread with a house that is engulfed in flames before it is completed. And a thread about a member who had to redo his facade because many backed out due to it being a single-stage sealed facade with Styrofoam insulation.

Good insulation ability but fire safety is a major issue. The tower in London that burned, resulting in all the deaths, had additional insulation. Styrofoam with sheet metal on. Now, many of those buildings in the UK are being redone.

 

[useless]

Yes, it was investigated in several countries after Grenfell Tower, but I haven't heard of any new regulations coming up?
Cellplast in solid and sprayed form is indeed cheap and easy to work with, so I guess the construction lobby is delaying any restrictive regulations?

 

[Appendix]

Yes, it was investigated in several countries after Grenfell Tower, but I haven't heard of any new regulations coming out?
Styrofoam in solid and sprayed form is cheap and easy to work with, so I guess the construction lobby delays any restrictive regulations?

Exactly, that's the whole point.
Property owners don't want to renovate. Housing cooperative associations don't want to raise the issue because then no one will buy the apartments. And the construction industry wants to build as cheaply as possible.
The vast majority of houses built after 2000 in Sweden have that plastic stuff in the facade.

 

[fgo]

It is possible to build fireproof structures with cellular plastic. Type insulation blocks with leca. That do not connect to combustible materials. However, I would really avoid combining, for example, wood and cellular plastic together.

Do you have any example of an EI60/120 wall with cellular plastic?

 

[Strontus]

That's exactly the issue.
Property owners don't want to renovate. Housing cooperatives don't want to bring it up, because then no one will buy the apartment. And the construction industry wants to build as cheaply as possible.
The vast majority of houses built after 2000 in Sweden have plastic junk in the facade.

Do the majority really have EPS in the facade? Or are you also including vapor barriers in that?

 

[Appendix]

Does a majority really have cell foam in the facade? Or do you also include vapor barriers in that?

Basically, everyone with plaster has cell foam, right? At least all of Sjöstan, Brakarby, and Norra Djurgården in Stockholm. Plus all the suburban constructions.
Cheap way to build.

 

[Isakare]

Do you have any examples of an EI60/120 wall with foam plastic?

Not foam plastic, but there is foam that doesn't burn, which is used to make fire-separating walls in industries, warehouses, etc. It is 0.6 mm sheet metal on each side and foam in between.
I install EI120 doors in such walls, so the walls themselves should also meet that class.

 

[Rickard.]

Not foam plastic, but there is foam that doesn't burn, and is used to make fire-separating walls in industries, warehouses, etc. It's 0.6 mm sheet metal on each side and foam in between.
I install EI120 doors in such walls, so the walls themselves should also hold that class.

Sandwich panels?
PIR is almost non-flammable and neither melts nor behaves unpredictably, making it quite safe compared to other types. Pir is so flame retardant that you can apply a blowtorch to it without it catching fire, it will blacken and shrink a bit but as long as there isn't any other fuel source nearby with substantial energy, nothing dangerous happens.

Eps is a completely different matter even if it contains inhibitors; a loose sheet is actually quite difficult to ignite completely but when combined with wood or other flammable materials, it becomes extremely hazardous.

I can add that many/some/certain insurance companies actively work against foam plastic and make it impossible to build with it for their customers, but unfortunately, it is probably difficult to implement this in residential construction.

 

[fgo]

Not polystyrene, but there is foam that doesn't burn, and it's used to make fire-separating walls in industries, warehouses, etc. There is 0.6 mm sheet metal on each side and foam in between. I install EI120 doors in such walls, so the walls themselves should also meet that standard.

Yes, then the wall should meet the same standard. Otherwise, some of the EI120 function is lost. Are the edges also made of sheet metal, etc.?

 

[Isakare]

Sandwich elements? PIR is almost non-combustible and neither melts nor behaves unsafely, making it quite safe compared to other types. PIR is so difficult to ignite that you can use a gas torch on it without it starting to burn; it blackens and shrinks slightly, but as long as there's no other high-energy fuel nearby, nothing dangerous happens.

EPS is a completely different case; even though it contains inhibitors, a loose sheet is actually quite tricky to ignite, but together with wood or other combustibles, it becomes extremely dangerous.

I can add that many/some/certain insurance companies actively work against foam plastics and make it impossible to build with them for their customers, but unfortunately, it’s probably difficult to incorporate that into residential building.

Don't know the real name, "panel wall" is usually stated in our construction documents. Everything in industry/storage is built with it today. It’s not really a sandwich, just foam and metal, the panels are tongue-and-groove, kind of like building with Lego.

 

[Isakare]

Yes, then the wall should maintain the same standard. Otherwise, some of the EI120 function is lost.
Are the edges also made of metal, etc.?

There's a bit of metal folded where the panels are tongue-and-groove. But when we're installing a door, it's usually just a cut-out hole in the wall with open foam. The frames are trim-forming on two sides, so they cover the cut-out, and we pack with rock wool if it's a fire-separating wall, sealing the frame trim/wall with fireproof sealant.

 

[Erik Jansson64]

The foamed plastics EPS and XPS are polystyrene plastics. PIR and PUR are polyurethane. The former are more prone to fire. One question is whether the burning building material (e.g. wood), whose heat melts the plastics, can then cause the plastic itself to burn and ignite back. EPS can do that, PIR cannot, in principle.
A less dry and chilly technical description of polystyrene (PE) is that it's one of the components in Napalm-B along with gasoline. So the answer to whether EPS could be part of an incendiary bomb is yes, but it requires a powerful heat-generating igniter, such as thermite. Fortunately, the construction industry does not sell such things.

 

[katos]

I have watched some lectures about foam plastic because I am in the firefighting industry. There are several interesting Swedish ones on YouTube. Without claiming to be an expert on the subject, I think the risks are underestimated.

Generally, it is assumed that fires start inside the apartments when designing fire protection. This means that a burning car against the facade is not included in the calculations. How long does two centimeters of plaster resist the energy from a car fire? When EPS heats up, it becomes liquid, which means you will get a pool fire against and in the facade.

Then there is also the problem of construction errors and poor installations. Electrical boxes, ventilation, drains, etc.

I have also looked a bit into multi-family houses with wooden frames, which are increasing significantly now. In some cases, fire protection is solved with residential sprinklers. 60-80 liters/minute. 10 minutes response time for the fire department. At least another 10 minutes before they turn off the sprinkler. It could certainly take 30 minutes. 2-4000 liters of water in the wooden structure. That requires considerable mold remediation. I am not negative towards new construction methods. But if I were to buy a condominium, it would be in a concrete building.

 

[Appendix]

The foam plastics EPS and XPS are polystyrene plastics. PIR and PUR are polyurethane. The former are more flammable. A question is if the burning building material (e.g., wood), whose heat melts the plastics, whether the plastic itself can burn and ignite back. EPS can, PIR cannot, in principle. A not so dry and chilly technical description of polystyrene (PE) is that it is one of the components in Napalm-B together with gasoline. So the answer if styrofoam can be part of an incendiary bomb. Yes, but a powerful heat-generating igniter, like thermite, is needed. Luckily, the construction industry does not sell such things.

OT: Styrofoam can be a very good part of an incendiary bomb. It is indeed a large part of modern Molotov cocktails. Styrofoam and gasoline.

However, hopefully, one does not have gasoline in the facade.