Hello everyone!
I am in the process of fixing the ceiling on our upper floor. Today, there's a type of woven ceiling, but after looking around a bit, I've found that there's something called a Barracuda ceiling. Does anyone know how to tell the difference between these?
Our ceiling is stretched with roofing felt nails, and there are wooden slats all around. I've torn a strip of the ceiling when I built an interior wall and took the opportunity to take some photos. Attaching pictures below. Is it woven or Barracuda, does anyone know?
The reason I'm asking is that I saw people writing that Barracuda ceiling has some form of vapor barrier in it. So, if I want to replace my ceiling with plasterboard (and if it is a Barracuda ceiling), perhaps I should install a vapor barrier towards the attic?
However, this is a science in itself. The house is from 1938 and probably has no vapor barrier at all.
It should also be noted that the residence is poorly ventilated (oil heating replaced with district heating, triple-glazed windows, chimney no longer heated). There is mold growth on the attic's inner ceiling. The plan is to install mechanical exhaust ventilation on the chimney to improve the ventilation and see if it also helps with the mold growth.
/C
I am in the process of fixing the ceiling on our upper floor. Today, there's a type of woven ceiling, but after looking around a bit, I've found that there's something called a Barracuda ceiling. Does anyone know how to tell the difference between these?
Our ceiling is stretched with roofing felt nails, and there are wooden slats all around. I've torn a strip of the ceiling when I built an interior wall and took the opportunity to take some photos. Attaching pictures below. Is it woven or Barracuda, does anyone know?
The reason I'm asking is that I saw people writing that Barracuda ceiling has some form of vapor barrier in it. So, if I want to replace my ceiling with plasterboard (and if it is a Barracuda ceiling), perhaps I should install a vapor barrier towards the attic?
However, this is a science in itself. The house is from 1938 and probably has no vapor barrier at all.
It should also be noted that the residence is poorly ventilated (oil heating replaced with district heating, triple-glazed windows, chimney no longer heated). There is mold growth on the attic's inner ceiling. The plan is to install mechanical exhaust ventilation on the chimney to improve the ventilation and see if it also helps with the mold growth.
/C
barracudatak is like "plastic roof"
you have vävtak. with a woven fabric
you have vävtak. with a woven fabric
That's right. I had the same roof as you have. Since the rest of the house probably lacks a moisture barrier, it is inappropriate to install it in just one room.
Staffan
Staffan
It is often impossible to retrofit a vapor barrier to achieve the desired function without tearing out the entire floor because you cannot seal the interior walls. It is also not suitable to install it in only parts of the house. In summary, there is a risk that you introduce new problems instead of solving the one you want.
You should prioritize ventilation and ensure that the house is properly under-pressure ventilated; it is not certain that it is sufficient to place a fan on the chimney. This way, you get as little moist air as possible in the attic. Also ensure that there is air supply in the right places considering that dense triple-glazed windows have been installed. If there are no ventilation slots in these, you probably need to install air inlets, Fresh TL98F is good.
Also review the climate in the attic, maybe the ventilation there is clogged? You probably also need to treat the already started growth with Boracol or similar. Also set up some form of climate monitoring in the attic so you have control of the situation. To measure is to know. There are reasonable wireless meters for relative humidity at Clas Ohlsson and similar places.
You should prioritize ventilation and ensure that the house is properly under-pressure ventilated; it is not certain that it is sufficient to place a fan on the chimney. This way, you get as little moist air as possible in the attic. Also ensure that there is air supply in the right places considering that dense triple-glazed windows have been installed. If there are no ventilation slots in these, you probably need to install air inlets, Fresh TL98F is good.
Also review the climate in the attic, maybe the ventilation there is clogged? You probably also need to treat the already started growth with Boracol or similar. Also set up some form of climate monitoring in the attic so you have control of the situation. To measure is to know. There are reasonable wireless meters for relative humidity at Clas Ohlsson and similar places.
Member
· Västernorrland
· 12 032 posts
Hope you thought it through when you cut out the sample, as a stretched fabric ceiling depends on being intact from wall to wall. Otherwise, it completely loses its look. A damaged one would need to be replaced and re-stretched or removed entirely and replaced with something else. A smaller room might only have a paper-stretched ceiling, and in that case, there is no fabric.
Thank you all for the quick and good answers, you are wonderful!
@mexitegel:
I am on the same track, i.e., I do not want to install a vapor barrier as this could have unpleasant effects and cause more problems. My theory is: if there wasn't a vapor barrier before, I shouldn't install one (even though the ceilings in other rooms will be renovated in the 'near' future).
After building the partition wall that divides a large room, the upper floor now consists of 5 rooms. 2 of these have no supply air, and I will install supply air in these 2 (in conjunction with the exhaust fan on the chimney). One room is a bathroom/toilet with an exhaust channel into the chimney (no supply air here, there shouldn't be any either).
Regarding the attic, it's a cold attic, the ceiling joists are insulated with wood shavings + sawdust, and then fiberglass bats have been laid on this, followed by windproof paper. From what I've read, mixing organic material with inorganic is not a good solution? It should be better to tear out the fiberglass and lay eco-fiber or something similar?
The attic has no vents on the short sides. There is a small air gap at the eave on the long sides.
The roof consists of tongue-and-groove boards + windproof paper + modern metal roofing. No insulation.
I have 4 temperature and humidity sensors installed in the attic, knowing that their accuracy is not optimal but I use them to detect trends (see images below). These were bought at Clas O. I have also measured the moisture content in the tongue-and-groove boards and beams against the outer roof - a moisture content below the risk level (I have measured where there is growth and elsewhere too).
To be on the safe side, I sprayed with Jape's mold-free solution on the spots where it is worst on the tongue-and-groove boards and then scraped away black fuzz in some places. I have also marked the spots where it's black to see if it spreads.
Comments regarding the images
1. The cardinal directions are approximate
2. The north and west sides get hardly any sun during the day (west faces a hillside with trees)
3. Short sides (north/south): a few black spots here and there, found on the tongue-and-groove boards where they meet the fiberglass
1. Sensor placed "North east" (located in a corner) : There are attacks on the tongue-and-groove boards + beams (black with a little fuzz) located in the corner at the bottom near the eave. A "dead/old" ventilation channel runs up there. Could it be that it is leaking, causing the growth here?
2. Sensor placed "South east" (located in a corner): No black growth, a few white specks
3. Sensor placed "South west" (located in a corner): There are attacks on the tongue-and-groove boards + beams (black with a little fuzz) located in the corner at the bottom near the eave (attack roughly in the same spot as "North east")
4. Sensor placed "West" (located on a long side above the bathroom!): There are attacks on the tongue-and-groove boards + beams (black with a little fuzz) located at the bottom near the eave (attack roughly in the same spot as "North east" and "South west")
The tricky thing with all this (which I have also read about on the forum) is the attic. Should I ventilate more or less? Should I add more insulation to the ceiling joists or remove it? Should I install a dehumidifier or not.... Phew, I'm getting tired
. The house is located in inland Norrland.
Ventilation/air in the rest of the house:
Basement: The majority of the basement is below ground, fresh smell meaning not a musty basement. Good airflow into the chimney here and good flow in the air supply vents.
Floor 1: Somewhat closed-in, slightly poorer flow in the air supply vents and exhaust channels into the chimney
Floor 2: (where the cloth ceiling and new wall are): Poor flow in 1 of the air supply vents. The exhaust vent into the chimney in the bathroom is barely noticeable
@Stefan1972:
No, I rushed a bit during the wall construction (we were short on time for moving in). What I did was cut a channel in the ceiling (about 4 m long and 10 cm wide). Set up the inner wall, THEN realized: hmm how am I going to solve this with the ceiling??!. It involved a lot of work to stretch it back on both sides of the wall, but I managed to get it quite okay. In hindsight, I should have torn down the entire ceiling and installed plasterboard directly. I definitely cannot recommend anyone trying to stretch back a cut cloth ceiling, it's a nightmare!
/C
@mexitegel:
I am on the same track, i.e., I do not want to install a vapor barrier as this could have unpleasant effects and cause more problems. My theory is: if there wasn't a vapor barrier before, I shouldn't install one (even though the ceilings in other rooms will be renovated in the 'near' future).
After building the partition wall that divides a large room, the upper floor now consists of 5 rooms. 2 of these have no supply air, and I will install supply air in these 2 (in conjunction with the exhaust fan on the chimney). One room is a bathroom/toilet with an exhaust channel into the chimney (no supply air here, there shouldn't be any either).
Regarding the attic, it's a cold attic, the ceiling joists are insulated with wood shavings + sawdust, and then fiberglass bats have been laid on this, followed by windproof paper. From what I've read, mixing organic material with inorganic is not a good solution? It should be better to tear out the fiberglass and lay eco-fiber or something similar?
The attic has no vents on the short sides. There is a small air gap at the eave on the long sides.
The roof consists of tongue-and-groove boards + windproof paper + modern metal roofing. No insulation.
I have 4 temperature and humidity sensors installed in the attic, knowing that their accuracy is not optimal but I use them to detect trends (see images below). These were bought at Clas O. I have also measured the moisture content in the tongue-and-groove boards and beams against the outer roof - a moisture content below the risk level (I have measured where there is growth and elsewhere too).
To be on the safe side, I sprayed with Jape's mold-free solution on the spots where it is worst on the tongue-and-groove boards and then scraped away black fuzz in some places. I have also marked the spots where it's black to see if it spreads.
Comments regarding the images
1. The cardinal directions are approximate
2. The north and west sides get hardly any sun during the day (west faces a hillside with trees)
3. Short sides (north/south): a few black spots here and there, found on the tongue-and-groove boards where they meet the fiberglass
1. Sensor placed "North east" (located in a corner) : There are attacks on the tongue-and-groove boards + beams (black with a little fuzz) located in the corner at the bottom near the eave. A "dead/old" ventilation channel runs up there. Could it be that it is leaking, causing the growth here?
2. Sensor placed "South east" (located in a corner): No black growth, a few white specks
3. Sensor placed "South west" (located in a corner): There are attacks on the tongue-and-groove boards + beams (black with a little fuzz) located in the corner at the bottom near the eave (attack roughly in the same spot as "North east")
4. Sensor placed "West" (located on a long side above the bathroom!): There are attacks on the tongue-and-groove boards + beams (black with a little fuzz) located at the bottom near the eave (attack roughly in the same spot as "North east" and "South west")
The tricky thing with all this (which I have also read about on the forum) is the attic. Should I ventilate more or less? Should I add more insulation to the ceiling joists or remove it? Should I install a dehumidifier or not.... Phew, I'm getting tired
. The house is located in inland Norrland.Ventilation/air in the rest of the house:
Basement: The majority of the basement is below ground, fresh smell meaning not a musty basement. Good airflow into the chimney here and good flow in the air supply vents.
Floor 1: Somewhat closed-in, slightly poorer flow in the air supply vents and exhaust channels into the chimney
Floor 2: (where the cloth ceiling and new wall are): Poor flow in 1 of the air supply vents. The exhaust vent into the chimney in the bathroom is barely noticeable
@Stefan1972:
No, I rushed a bit during the wall construction (we were short on time for moving in). What I did was cut a channel in the ceiling (about 4 m long and 10 cm wide). Set up the inner wall, THEN realized: hmm how am I going to solve this with the ceiling??!. It involved a lot of work to stretch it back on both sides of the wall, but I managed to get it quite okay. In hindsight, I should have torn down the entire ceiling and installed plasterboard directly. I definitely cannot recommend anyone trying to stretch back a cut cloth ceiling, it's a nightmare!
/C
you're making it more complicated than it needs to beC claym said:Thanks everyone for the quick and good responses, you are wonderful!
@mexitegel:
I am on the same track, i.e. I don't want to put in a vapor barrier as this could have an unpleasant effect and I could encounter more problems. My thesis: if there wasn't a vapor barrier before, I shouldn't install one (even though the ceilings in other rooms will be renovated in the 'near' future).
After I constructed the interior wall that divides a large room, the upper floor now consists of 5 rooms. 2 of these have no fresh air supply and I will install it in these 2 (in conjunction with the exhaust fan on the chimney). One room is a bathroom/toilet with an exhaust channel into the chimney (no fresh air supply here, there shouldn't be any either).
Regarding the attic, it is a cold attic, the attic floor is insulated with wood shavings + sawdust and then wool fiber boards have been placed on top of this and then wind paper. From what I've read, it's not a good solution to mix organic material with inorganic? It would be better to tear out the wool fiber and add ecofiber or similar?
The attic has no vents on the short sides. There is a small air gap at the eaves on the long sides.
The roof is tongue and groove + wind paper + modern metal roofing. No insulation.
I have 4 temperature and humidity sensors set up in the attic, I know their accuracy isn't optimal but I use them to monitor trends (see images below). These were purchased at Clas O. I have also measured the moisture content in the tongue and groove and the beams against the outer roof - a moisture content that is below the risk level (measured where there is growth and in other places as well).
To be on the safe side, I have sprayed with Japes mold-free in the worst spots on the tongue and groove and then scraped off black fuzz in certain areas. I've also circled the spots that are black to see if it spreads.
Comments regarding the images
1. Directions are approximate
2. The north side and west side barely receive any sun during the day (west faces a rocky side with trees)
3. Short sides (north/south): some black spots here and there, located on the tongue and groove where it meets the wool fiber
1. Sensor placed "Northeast" (located in a corner): There is an infestation on the tongue and groove + beams (black with a little fuzz) the infestation is located in the corner at the bottom near the eaves. There's a "dead/old" ventilation channel going up there. Could it be that it is not sealed properly and that causes growth here?
2. Sensor placed "Southeast" (located in a corner): No black growth, some white spots
3. Sensor placed "Southwest" (located in a corner): There is an infestation on the tongue and groove + beams (black with a little fuzz) the infestation is located in the corner at the bottom near the eaves (infestation in basically the same spot as "Northeast")
4. Sensor placed "West" (located on a long side above the bathroom!): There is an infestation on the tongue and groove + beams (black with a little fuzz) the infestation is located at the bottom near the eaves (infestation in basically the same spot as "Northeast" and "Southwest")
The tricky thing about all this (as I've also checked around here on the forum) is precisely the attic. Should I ventilate more or less? Should I put more insulation in the attic floor or remove it? Should I install a dehumidifier or not... Phew, it tires me out
Ventilation/the air in the rest of the house:
Basement: Most of the basement is underground, fresh scent i.e. not a musty basement. Good flow into the chimney here and good flow in the fresh air vents.
Floor 1: Slightly stuffy, a bit poorer flow in the fresh air vents and the exhaust channels into the chimney
Floor 2: (where the fabric ceiling and the new wall are located): poor flow in 1 of the fresh air vents. The exhaust vent into the chimney in the bathroom is barely noticeable
@Stefan1972:
No, I went a bit too fast with the wall construction (we were short on time to move in). What I did was cut a groove in the ceiling (about 4 meters long and 10 cm wide). Put up the interior wall, THEN I realized: hmm, how am I going to solve this with the ceiling???!. It was a lot of work to tension it back on both sides of the wall but I managed to make it quite okay. In retrospect, I should have torn down the entire ceiling and put up plasterboard directly. I really can't recommend anyone trying to tension back a cut fabric ceiling, it's a pain!
/C
do you have plastic in the house otherwise?C claym said:
Member
· Västernorrland
· 12 032 posts
A stretched fabric ceiling is installed moist, then it tightens as it dries. One that has been cut and has paper on it cannot simply be nailed up again with good results, it becomes kind of backwards. Furthermore, the fabric is installed first, then the paper which is also moist and dries to tighten it further.
sorry, I'm referring to age-resistant plastic.C claym said:
there are high function fabric/membranes. so you can renovate one room at a time.
exactly, if it is torn it is done for and cannot be reinstalled.S Stefan1972 said:
however, there are materials to make a new fabric-stretched ceiling. however, these ceilings are sometimes considered fire hazardous.
The idea has always been to tear down the fabric ceiling and put up drywall. However, I never had time to build a wall and put up a new drywall ceiling before we moved in, hence my temporary solution of stretching back the ceiling. Now we've settled in and want to tackle the ceiling, tearing it down and putting up drywall. But since I became uncertain whether our fabric ceiling has any vapor barrier function and whether there might be problems if we replace the fabric with drywall, I started the thread. I don't want to mess up anything with potential moisture transfer when switching from fabric to drywall.
/C
/C