Hello!
I am a new member of the forum, and after asking around, reading, googling, etc., I feel that I must ask my first question and thus make my first post in the hope of getting some sort of guidance and help.
I live in a condominium apartment in a multi-story building from 1958. Floor 3 out of a total of 4. Construction-wise, the whole building is made of concrete, floors, ceilings, outer walls, inner walls, etc. I have obtained full construction drawings for the entire property free of charge from the municipality.
I am about to undertake a complete renovation of this apartment. To allow more light in and to make the home an open floor plan, I want to remove a load-bearing wall between the kitchen and the living room. The total length is almost exactly 4 meters and 150 millimeters thick. See attached plan drawing, where black-marked walls are the apartment's load-bearing outer and inner walls, and the red-marked wall is the one to be demolished.
I have been in contact with the community building office, where I was informed that a building notification is required for this action. Since the municipality wants to know how I plan to handle the removal of the wall and thereby maintain the structural integrity of the property during and after the intervention, I am looking for a structural engineer to calculate the load transfer and provide me with a K-drawing that the municipality requires.
Due to this, I have encountered two problems. I am looking for a structural engineer, which seems almost impossible to find. But when I do find one, the prices seem to vary greatly, and I mean literally greatly! I therefore need to find an engineer with a reasonable price level for their work.
The municipality refuses to help with suggestions for engineers because they must remain "impartial."
One engineer I contacted does not work on simpler tasks like this, focusing more on larger projects such as new construction of multi-story buildings and other things. But according to him, the price for this should be between 2000-3000 kr.
Another engineer, specialized in structural engineering and working at Lund University of Technology, estimated the time required to be about 6 hours and therefore can provide me with everything needed for 7000 kr.
One of the engineers working at Sweco estimated that the cost could be between 10000-18000 kr.
But today I was shocked when I contacted an engineer running a sole proprietorship. According to him, he would charge 31250 kr for calculating the load transfer and complete K-drawings. On top of that, he suggested he could also be the supervisory authority for the project with an additional fee of 18750 kr. Thus, totaling 50000 kr. WTF!?
I understand that no one has exactly the same prices and that different price levels exist, but that it can vary this drastically is something I had no idea about and find very hard to understand.
After a lot of googling and searching on the forum, I've also noticed that there have been members who have done exactly the same intervention, namely demolished a load-bearing wall of 4 meters and paid 2000-4000 kr for an engineer who calculated the load transfer and provided them with a K-drawing. Members who have built a completely new house from scratch have paid around 15000 kr for complete construction drawings.
What do you consider to be a reasonable price level? Above all, where can I find a skilled engineer with a fair price level in the Malmö region? Please share your suggestions, opinions, thoughts, etc. I'm opening up for a discussion and would love to hear from those of you who have experience with this or similar projects.
Sorry for the long post. As mentioned, it's my first, and due to my thoroughness, I wanted to describe the case as comprehensively as possible so that you get a detailed overview.
Best regards,
nzsc
I am a new member of the forum, and after asking around, reading, googling, etc., I feel that I must ask my first question and thus make my first post in the hope of getting some sort of guidance and help.
I live in a condominium apartment in a multi-story building from 1958. Floor 3 out of a total of 4. Construction-wise, the whole building is made of concrete, floors, ceilings, outer walls, inner walls, etc. I have obtained full construction drawings for the entire property free of charge from the municipality.
I am about to undertake a complete renovation of this apartment. To allow more light in and to make the home an open floor plan, I want to remove a load-bearing wall between the kitchen and the living room. The total length is almost exactly 4 meters and 150 millimeters thick. See attached plan drawing, where black-marked walls are the apartment's load-bearing outer and inner walls, and the red-marked wall is the one to be demolished.
I have been in contact with the community building office, where I was informed that a building notification is required for this action. Since the municipality wants to know how I plan to handle the removal of the wall and thereby maintain the structural integrity of the property during and after the intervention, I am looking for a structural engineer to calculate the load transfer and provide me with a K-drawing that the municipality requires.
Due to this, I have encountered two problems. I am looking for a structural engineer, which seems almost impossible to find. But when I do find one, the prices seem to vary greatly, and I mean literally greatly! I therefore need to find an engineer with a reasonable price level for their work.
The municipality refuses to help with suggestions for engineers because they must remain "impartial."
One engineer I contacted does not work on simpler tasks like this, focusing more on larger projects such as new construction of multi-story buildings and other things. But according to him, the price for this should be between 2000-3000 kr.
Another engineer, specialized in structural engineering and working at Lund University of Technology, estimated the time required to be about 6 hours and therefore can provide me with everything needed for 7000 kr.
One of the engineers working at Sweco estimated that the cost could be between 10000-18000 kr.
But today I was shocked when I contacted an engineer running a sole proprietorship. According to him, he would charge 31250 kr for calculating the load transfer and complete K-drawings. On top of that, he suggested he could also be the supervisory authority for the project with an additional fee of 18750 kr. Thus, totaling 50000 kr. WTF!?
I understand that no one has exactly the same prices and that different price levels exist, but that it can vary this drastically is something I had no idea about and find very hard to understand.
After a lot of googling and searching on the forum, I've also noticed that there have been members who have done exactly the same intervention, namely demolished a load-bearing wall of 4 meters and paid 2000-4000 kr for an engineer who calculated the load transfer and provided them with a K-drawing. Members who have built a completely new house from scratch have paid around 15000 kr for complete construction drawings.
What do you consider to be a reasonable price level? Above all, where can I find a skilled engineer with a fair price level in the Malmö region? Please share your suggestions, opinions, thoughts, etc. I'm opening up for a discussion and would love to hear from those of you who have experience with this or similar projects.
Sorry for the long post. As mentioned, it's my first, and due to my thoroughness, I wanted to describe the case as comprehensively as possible so that you get a detailed overview.
Best regards,
nzsc
What a reasonable price is, I have no idea. But you can always turn to the municipality and request construction drawings from similar operations that have been done in another house. On those drawings, it should state who made them. Then you at least have a name of someone who has done it before. Request a reference from the cheapest one, if it feels okay, go with that.
A big thank you for a quick response and your tip @tobben87. I will of course look into that as well and try to get hold of more konstruktörer to compare prices. If the price levels differ this much after I've contacted 3-4, it definitely means I need to check many more. Most, I've noticed, call themselves construction consultants or building engineers and similar names, everything except konstruktörer 
I agree that the spread is significant and somewhat unreasonable. However, I would need to know more about the conditions to assess what a reasonable level is. How is the red wall constructed today? Multi-family buildings from 1958 may have a load-bearing structure that is a combination of masonry and cast-in-place concrete, which can be a bit tricky to "read." Your red wall may be a non-load-bearing half-brick wall. In that case, it shouldn't cost 50 lax to say that.
Best answer
Stay away from the big consultancy giants, they charge more for opening a case than you might think, I would say. I have moved out of the Malmö area and have a building engineer in the family who has a tip, I'll send a pm.
Attaching the original drawings @justusandersson so you can get an even clearer picture and the information you need.
I completely agree with you @Bernieberg! For that reason, I contacted this sole proprietorship. I was naturally shocked already at the 10,000-18,000 kronor range that I got from Sweco. But when I read the email from the guy who runs a tiny sole proprietorship in the area, where he wrote that he wanted 31,250 kronor, I nearly choked on my coffee
But thanks for your tip! I'll definitely check it out during the day!
But thanks for your tip! I'll definitely check it out during the day!
An update:
Not only do I need to find a constructor who can calculate the displacement for the load-bearing wall I wish to remove, but now I have also received a notification from the municipality that I additionally need to find a certified control manager because it involves a measure in a housing association.
However, these seem to be much easier to find as these individuals are certified by Swedac and thus there is a register of all of them that can be found at the following link: http://www.boverket.se/sv/om-boverket/tjanster/hitta-certifierade/
Not only do I need to find a constructor who can calculate the displacement for the load-bearing wall I wish to remove, but now I have also received a notification from the municipality that I additionally need to find a certified control manager because it involves a measure in a housing association.
However, these seem to be much easier to find as these individuals are certified by Swedac and thus there is a register of all of them that can be found at the following link: http://www.boverket.se/sv/om-boverket/tjanster/hitta-certifierade/
An update for readers who are already in or possibly will find themselves in similar situations:
Of course, prices vary, whether it's about goods or services. However, one looks at the price distribution. A product costs differently from store to store. Likewise, a service. Why this is so obviously depends on several factors. (I won't go into the economic aspect)
However, I want to say that in my search for a structural engineer, I encountered the following as a private individual:
- large corporate groups, such as Sweco, WSP, etc. do not take on simpler assignments.
- larger companies with multiple structural engineers do not work with private individuals.
- smaller companies with 1-2 structural engineers are therefore the right forum to turn to for simpler assignments as a private individual.
After getting an idea of what the price should be for a structural engineer to calculate the load transfer for a load-bearing wall that I intend to completely remove, I have received different price quotes. Note that this applies to my case, and all factors naturally influence the price. Mainly, it is the number of work hours and hourly rate that ultimately affect the final price. Other factors can be available data, material, experience, type of method, etc.
From a well-known medium-sized company with 7-10 active structural engineers, I received two different prices even though they are colleagues and operate at the same company. The difference is that one is inexperienced, while the other is much more experienced. Structural engineer vs. Supervising structural engineer. 7500 kr incl. VAT, time spent 8 hours vs. 9000 kr incl. VAT, time spent unknown, but probably the same. Naturally, it should be less since he is more experienced.
From another one-man company, I received a quote of 4000 kr incl. VAT, time spent unknown.
From a third one-man company, I received a quote of 7000 kr incl. VAT, time spent 6 hours.
From a fourth one-man company, I received a quote of 5625 kr incl. VAT, time spent 5 hours.
As you can see, both prices and time spent naturally vary. Hence, hourly rates also vary. One can therefore conclude that based on this, as well as posts that others have made with similar measures, the price lands around 5000-6000 kr incl. VAT.
This differs greatly from the 31250 kr incl. VAT that I received in a quote from an apparently unserious player in the market, and this is precisely what prompted me to start the thread. It is a one-man business and sole proprietorship should also be added. The person in question is authorized, however loooong ways from experienced as the one I have hired.
The reason I write this is that I have also encountered various posts where some others have faced the same astronomical price quotes for similar work.
My advice to private individuals who are facing similar projects is to:
- contact smaller companies or one-man companies
- request a price quote as early as the first contact
- get in touch with several, preferably 5-10
...and last but absolutely not least...
For goodness' sake, get help from a structural engineer as soon as it concerns load-bearing parts!!! The cost that this entails is peanuts compared to what the entire project costs, BUT above all what it could cost IF something goes wrong! Don't take your chances
BIG KUDOS AND HEARTFELT THANKS TO @Bernieberg FOR THE TIP!
Of course, prices vary, whether it's about goods or services. However, one looks at the price distribution. A product costs differently from store to store. Likewise, a service. Why this is so obviously depends on several factors. (I won't go into the economic aspect)
However, I want to say that in my search for a structural engineer, I encountered the following as a private individual:
- large corporate groups, such as Sweco, WSP, etc. do not take on simpler assignments.
- larger companies with multiple structural engineers do not work with private individuals.
- smaller companies with 1-2 structural engineers are therefore the right forum to turn to for simpler assignments as a private individual.
After getting an idea of what the price should be for a structural engineer to calculate the load transfer for a load-bearing wall that I intend to completely remove, I have received different price quotes. Note that this applies to my case, and all factors naturally influence the price. Mainly, it is the number of work hours and hourly rate that ultimately affect the final price. Other factors can be available data, material, experience, type of method, etc.
From a well-known medium-sized company with 7-10 active structural engineers, I received two different prices even though they are colleagues and operate at the same company. The difference is that one is inexperienced, while the other is much more experienced. Structural engineer vs. Supervising structural engineer. 7500 kr incl. VAT, time spent 8 hours vs. 9000 kr incl. VAT, time spent unknown, but probably the same. Naturally, it should be less since he is more experienced.
From another one-man company, I received a quote of 4000 kr incl. VAT, time spent unknown.
From a third one-man company, I received a quote of 7000 kr incl. VAT, time spent 6 hours.
From a fourth one-man company, I received a quote of 5625 kr incl. VAT, time spent 5 hours.
As you can see, both prices and time spent naturally vary. Hence, hourly rates also vary. One can therefore conclude that based on this, as well as posts that others have made with similar measures, the price lands around 5000-6000 kr incl. VAT.
This differs greatly from the 31250 kr incl. VAT that I received in a quote from an apparently unserious player in the market, and this is precisely what prompted me to start the thread. It is a one-man business and sole proprietorship should also be added. The person in question is authorized, however loooong ways from experienced as the one I have hired.
The reason I write this is that I have also encountered various posts where some others have faced the same astronomical price quotes for similar work.
My advice to private individuals who are facing similar projects is to:
- contact smaller companies or one-man companies
- request a price quote as early as the first contact
- get in touch with several, preferably 5-10
...and last but absolutely not least...
For goodness' sake, get help from a structural engineer as soon as it concerns load-bearing parts!!! The cost that this entails is peanuts compared to what the entire project costs, BUT above all what it could cost IF something goes wrong! Don't take your chances
BIG KUDOS AND HEARTFELT THANKS TO @Bernieberg FOR THE TIP!
I am facing a similar situation in Malmö, thanks for your tips! Could you share who you hired? It would certainly make things much easier for me... huge thanks in that casenzsc said:
An update for readers who are already in or might possibly find themselves in a similar situation:
Of course, prices differ, whether it concerns goods or services. However, one looks at the price spread. A product costs differently from store to store. Likewise, a service. Why this is so naturally depends on several factors. (I will not go into the economic aspect)
However, I want to mention that in my search for a designer, I encountered the following as a private individual:
- large corporate companies, such as Sweco, WSP, etc., do not take on simpler assignments.
- larger companies with multiple designers do not work with private individuals.
- smaller companies with 1-2 designers are therefore the right forum for simpler tasks to approach as a private individual.
After getting an idea of what the price should be for a designer to calculate the modification for a load-bearing wall that I intend to remove entirely, I have received various price quotes. Note that this is specific to my case, and all factors naturally affect the price. Above all, it is the number of working hours and the hourly rate that ultimately affect the final price. Other factors can be available documentation, materials, experience, type of method, etc.
From a well-known medium-sized company with 7-10 active designers, I received two different prices even though they are colleagues and active at the same company. The difference is that one is inexperienced, while the other is significantly more experienced. Designer vs. Project Designer. 7500 SEK incl. VAT, time expenditure 8 hours. vs. 9000 SEK incl. VAT, time expenditure unknown, but probably the same. Should naturally be less since he is more experienced.
From another one-man company, I received a quote of 4000 SEK incl. VAT, time expenditure unknown.
From a third one-man company, I received a quote of 7000 SEK incl. VAT, time expenditure 6 hours.
From a fourth one-man company, I received a quote of 5625 SEK incl. VAT, time expenditure 5 hours.
As you can see, both prices and time expenditure differ naturally. Hence, hourly rates also differ. It can thus be concluded that based on this, as well as posts others have made with similar actions, the price lands around 5000-6000 SEK incl. VAT.
This contrasts significantly with the 31250 SEK incl. VAT I received in a quote from an obviously unscrupulous market player, and this was precisely what prompted me to start the thread. It is a one-man company and sole proprietorship, it should also be added. The person in question is qualified, but far from as experienced as the one I hired.
The reason I am writing this is because I have also come across various posts where others have encountered the same astronomical price quotes for similar jobs.
My tip for private individuals facing similar projects is to:
- contact smaller companies or one-man companies
- request a price quote as soon as possible during the first contact
- contact multiple parties, preferably 5-10
...and last but absolutely not least...
For God's sake, seek help from a designer as soon as it involves load-bearing parts!!! The cost involved is pocket change compared to what the entire project costs, BUT above all, what it could cost IF something were to go wrong! Don't take your chances
BIG CREDITS AND HEARTFELT THANKS TO @Bernieberg FOR THE TIP!
Absolutely, check your inbox!T Tobiasam said:
It may be appropriate to point out that this type of intervention also requires permission from the housing cooperative. Some cooperatives then place some demands to see insurance certificates for the constructor, or other requirements beyond those imposed by the building permit authority.
Those are quite reasonable points from the board of the association to demand, I think, compared to what I've experienced!H hempularen said: