Värme berekning
Hej
Jag är ny och inte tala och skriva Svenska, ürsäkta mig.
Jag hopp du tala och skriva Engelska.
We have a vacationhouse (fritidhus) in Bjurtjarn that is near Storfors - Kristinehamn - Karlskoga.
There is no heating and we prefer bergvärme but that is exspensive at this time because we have to rebuild the house inside.
We thought to heat it with electricity and wood.
We have a vedpanna and I want to make a central heating systen with water (vattenvärme)
I calculate the Watt for the livingroom confirm Myson and the result is 2220 Watt
When I calculate it in the way we do that in Holland then I need 5250 Watt.
Point of view here is -10° and in Sweden they told me it is -20°
That is a lot of difference.
Can someone explain that to me ?
Myson can not and I contact NIBE but they can or will not explain it to me, they only wrote me that the EVC13 is good for 200 m2.
That also supprice me because it must be different if those 200 m2 is 2 meter high or 3 meter or 4 meters hight
We calculate in m3 but as far as I can see in Sweden they advice or calculate in m2.
The room I talk about is 5 x 5 x meter and 3 meter high and have 4 meters isolated outside wall and 4 m2 dubbel glass window. Floor and ceiling contains 14 cm rockwool.
I hope someone can and will help me.
Tack så mycket
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Jag är ny och inte tala och skriva Svenska, ürsäkta mig.
Jag hopp du tala och skriva Engelska.
We have a vacationhouse (fritidhus) in Bjurtjarn that is near Storfors - Kristinehamn - Karlskoga.
There is no heating and we prefer bergvärme but that is exspensive at this time because we have to rebuild the house inside.
We thought to heat it with electricity and wood.
We have a vedpanna and I want to make a central heating systen with water (vattenvärme)
I calculate the Watt for the livingroom confirm Myson and the result is 2220 Watt
When I calculate it in the way we do that in Holland then I need 5250 Watt.
Point of view here is -10° and in Sweden they told me it is -20°
That is a lot of difference.
Can someone explain that to me ?
Myson can not and I contact NIBE but they can or will not explain it to me, they only wrote me that the EVC13 is good for 200 m2.
That also supprice me because it must be different if those 200 m2 is 2 meter high or 3 meter or 4 meters hight
We calculate in m3 but as far as I can see in Sweden they advice or calculate in m2.
The room I talk about is 5 x 5 x meter and 3 meter high and have 4 meters isolated outside wall and 4 m2 dubbel glass window. Floor and ceiling contains 14 cm rockwool.
I hope someone can and will help me.
Tack så mycket
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Hello Nol,
The standard temperature we calculate with in Sweden is -20C but it can go below -30C sometimes in the winter. Holland is a lot warmer than Sweden in the winter.
The electric furnace you have been recommended (EVC 13) has a normal output of 9000W which sould be quite ok for your vacation house.
The recommendations you get in Sweden for m2 is based on calculations in the Swedish climate. The Dutch calculation methods are ok in Sweden too but you need to insert the colder conditons in the parameters. Do not forget the windchill factor in the winter. It increases exponentially... Go with the manufacturers recommendations. They will not lie to you.
The standard temperature we calculate with in Sweden is -20C but it can go below -30C sometimes in the winter. Holland is a lot warmer than Sweden in the winter.
The electric furnace you have been recommended (EVC 13) has a normal output of 9000W which sould be quite ok for your vacation house.
The recommendations you get in Sweden for m2 is based on calculations in the Swedish climate. The Dutch calculation methods are ok in Sweden too but you need to insert the colder conditons in the parameters. Do not forget the windchill factor in the winter. It increases exponentially... Go with the manufacturers recommendations. They will not lie to you.
Hello Roke, thank you for the welcom greetings and I can tell you that I enjoy Sweden very much.
Hej M97marro
That is correct, Holland is warmer then Sweden in wintertime but therefor I am confuse and surprised about the calculation results.
I receive an e-mail from NIBE and the wrote me that they generaly multiply m2 x 50 to 75 Watt / m2
We in Holland do that too but then we multiply m3 x 70 watt / m3
For your information bedroom 18° - multiply with 60 ; livingroom 20° - multiply with 70 and bathroom 22° - multiply with 80
If I calculate a livingroom from 5 x 5 meter and 3 meters high then I need 5x5x3x70 = 5250 Watt radiator
And that is based on a outside temperature of -10°
If I calculate this confirm the advice from NIBE then I need 5 x 5 x 65 = 1625 Watt radiator, that is much less then in Holland even it is much colder in Sweden.
I hope that you understand this and that I am confuse about this ?!
That 65 was mentioned in the e-mail from NIBE because they wrote that the EVC13 should warm the house if it is not more then 200 m2 because 200 x 65 = 13.000 Watt = 13 Kw
We want radiators in the house, not floorheating !!
Hälsningar
Nol
Hej M97marro
That is correct, Holland is warmer then Sweden in wintertime but therefor I am confuse and surprised about the calculation results.
I receive an e-mail from NIBE and the wrote me that they generaly multiply m2 x 50 to 75 Watt / m2
We in Holland do that too but then we multiply m3 x 70 watt / m3
For your information bedroom 18° - multiply with 60 ; livingroom 20° - multiply with 70 and bathroom 22° - multiply with 80
If I calculate a livingroom from 5 x 5 meter and 3 meters high then I need 5x5x3x70 = 5250 Watt radiator
And that is based on a outside temperature of -10°
If I calculate this confirm the advice from NIBE then I need 5 x 5 x 65 = 1625 Watt radiator, that is much less then in Holland even it is much colder in Sweden.
I hope that you understand this and that I am confuse about this ?!
That 65 was mentioned in the e-mail from NIBE because they wrote that the EVC13 should warm the house if it is not more then 200 m2 because 200 x 65 = 13.000 Watt = 13 Kw
We want radiators in the house, not floorheating !!
Hälsningar
Nol
Hello Nol,
Now I understand your confusion (did not quite get you the last time, sorry). The normal Swedish recommendations is 70-75W/m2 in the area where your house is. And this is calculated for a well isolated area. If the isolation in the walls is poor the need goes up to 90-100W/m2. The general recommendation is 25-30W/m3 if you prefere it in these terms. This is based on 20C indoor temperature.
I can not say why the difference is to the Dutch formula but it seems to produce an extremely high need?
Go with 30W/m3 and you will not be cold in the winter here.
Now I understand your confusion (did not quite get you the last time, sorry). The normal Swedish recommendations is 70-75W/m2 in the area where your house is. And this is calculated for a well isolated area. If the isolation in the walls is poor the need goes up to 90-100W/m2. The general recommendation is 25-30W/m3 if you prefere it in these terms. This is based on 20C indoor temperature.
I can not say why the difference is to the Dutch formula but it seems to produce an extremely high need?
Go with 30W/m3 and you will not be cold in the winter here.
Hej M97marro
Thank you for your explanation.
A few question :
As I wrote, the floor has been isolated with 20 cm wood saw-dust. I hope you understand what i mean.
The outside walls are not isolated but I want to do that.
I have made all rooms inside and a new ceiling because the house is 5,5 meter high inside.
The new ceiling is at 3 meter, because the top of the windows is at 3 meters. Between the new ceiling and the old ceiling at 5,5 meter is nothing. On the old ceiling is also 15cm wood saw-dust.
I want to isolate the new ceiling, at 3 meters, with 145 mm rockwool and all inside walls with 45 mm rockwool
My questions are :
Is 20 cm wood saw-dust in the floor ok ?
Is 145 mm on the new ceiling ok ?
Is 45 mm in the inside walls ok ?
What can I do to isolate the outside walls ? I think about to isolate the outside walls from the inside with 45mm rockwool. Is that ok ?
I do not know if that is correct and I am looking forward to your advice.
If this is not the correct topic I will drop this to the isolation topic.
Anyway, tack så mycket
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
Thank you for your explanation.
A few question :
As I wrote, the floor has been isolated with 20 cm wood saw-dust. I hope you understand what i mean.
The outside walls are not isolated but I want to do that.
I have made all rooms inside and a new ceiling because the house is 5,5 meter high inside.
The new ceiling is at 3 meter, because the top of the windows is at 3 meters. Between the new ceiling and the old ceiling at 5,5 meter is nothing. On the old ceiling is also 15cm wood saw-dust.
I want to isolate the new ceiling, at 3 meters, with 145 mm rockwool and all inside walls with 45 mm rockwool
My questions are :
Is 20 cm wood saw-dust in the floor ok ?
Is 145 mm on the new ceiling ok ?
Is 45 mm in the inside walls ok ?
What can I do to isolate the outside walls ? I think about to isolate the outside walls from the inside with 45mm rockwool. Is that ok ?
I do not know if that is correct and I am looking forward to your advice.
If this is not the correct topic I will drop this to the isolation topic.
Anyway, tack så mycket
Med vänlige hälsningar
Nol
The difference between swedish and Holland calculations are a mixture of culture (assuming 2.5 meter room height instead of using m3), and of standards. Swedish "normal isolation" is a quite thick isolation, and calculations of needed power is based on that.Schenk skrev:
Your thoughts on isolation as above would be considered ok for a house not used in winters. But for a winter house, the discussion of roof would start around 200mm thick and go on until 400 mm thick.
Rather than trying to guide you to a certain thickness, which there are others here with a lot more knowledge about, I want to make you aware of the need to bring the selected isolation thickness into the discussions on selected heater.
--- Mats ---
Tack Mats
Thank you for your explanation even we have here 2,5 meters high rooms, 3 meters are exclusive old homes from the years 1930.
But I agree that the isolation would be the main issue for the difference.
In Holland we use 70 to 100 mm isolation in the walls of the stone houses.
Yes you are right, I must contact the correct heater so that the the more knowledge persons can advice me.
Thank you all for helping me, I appreciate that very much.
Best Regards / Hälsingar
Nol
Thank you for your explanation even we have here 2,5 meters high rooms, 3 meters are exclusive old homes from the years 1930.
But I agree that the isolation would be the main issue for the difference.
In Holland we use 70 to 100 mm isolation in the walls of the stone houses.
Yes you are right, I must contact the correct heater so that the the more knowledge persons can advice me.
Thank you all for helping me, I appreciate that very much.
Best Regards / Hälsingar
Nol
Hello Nol!
DT 30 is as you think the feed-water temperature. In Sweden we call it a low temperature system. If you have some kind of heat-pump or mix vid floorheating you should calculate radiators at DT 30, byt if you use Nibe EVC 13 or woodheating you can use DT 50, for smaller radiators.
DT 30 is as you think the feed-water temperature. In Sweden we call it a low temperature system. If you have some kind of heat-pump or mix vid floorheating you should calculate radiators at DT 30, byt if you use Nibe EVC 13 or woodheating you can use DT 50, for smaller radiators.
Tack Skogesta
For now we are going to use the EVC13 but in the future we prefer bergvärme and looking to the future I think that I am going to calculate with the DT30.
I expect that I can reduce the EVC13 feed water too 30° ?
I calculate our house in Holland confirm DT90.
That mean that a 700 Watt K11 radiator in Holland have a size of 600 hög x 700 längd, can you give me an transversion table to calculate the size for DT30 ?
Hälsningar
Nol
For now we are going to use the EVC13 but in the future we prefer bergvärme and looking to the future I think that I am going to calculate with the DT30.
I expect that I can reduce the EVC13 feed water too 30° ?
I calculate our house in Holland confirm DT90.
That mean that a 700 Watt K11 radiator in Holland have a size of 600 hög x 700 längd, can you give me an transversion table to calculate the size for DT30 ?
Hälsningar
Nol
I am uncertain if DT90 could be similar to DT30? DT should stand for "delta" T. DT90 should mean a very large temperature in the radiator, since delta T is measured against the average radiator temperature compared to the room temperature (assumed to be 20 degrees). So with DT90, you must have either steam or heavy pressure. I am including a link showing the temperature for three different delta Ts, but none for DT90.Nol skrev:
http://www.mibnet.se/house/heating/InformationAboutOldRadiators.html
--- Mats ---
Tack Mats
Now I understand !!
After reading your link I must say that we use in 75/60 and that is DT50
All misunderstanding of the DT, I thought DT30 mean 30° water temperature, my mistake.
Thank you so much for the link
Tack så mycket
Nol
Now I understand !!
After reading your link I must say that we use in 75/60 and that is DT50
All misunderstanding of the DT, I thought DT30 mean 30° water temperature, my mistake.
Thank you so much for the link
Tack så mycket
Nol
Hej
I am ready to install the central heating system with water radiators en a CTC electronic in our vacation house.
I calculate the rooms and then I check for radiators but I am a little bit confuse
First of all, we have a previous community house and that is not isolated well, just sawdust under de floor and above the ceiling. Not in the wall and we have 2 glass windows.
As an example : the kitchen is 19,7 m2 which is 49,3 m3
If I multiply the m2 with 100 then I need 1970 watt
If I multiply the m3 with 30 then I need 1476 watt
If I calculate it on the website of MysGuiden then I need 1215 watt
What is the advice from you ?
If I add-up all necessary highest power of every rooms then I need 8197 watt so this would be enough for the standard CTC electronic.. I have 10% over power.
I am looking forward for your response
Med vänliga hälsningar
Nol
I am ready to install the central heating system with water radiators en a CTC electronic in our vacation house.
I calculate the rooms and then I check for radiators but I am a little bit confuse
First of all, we have a previous community house and that is not isolated well, just sawdust under de floor and above the ceiling. Not in the wall and we have 2 glass windows.
As an example : the kitchen is 19,7 m2 which is 49,3 m3
If I multiply the m2 with 100 then I need 1970 watt
If I multiply the m3 with 30 then I need 1476 watt
If I calculate it on the website of MysGuiden then I need 1215 watt
What is the advice from you ?
If I add-up all necessary highest power of every rooms then I need 8197 watt so this would be enough for the standard CTC electronic.. I have 10% over power.
I am looking forward for your response
Med vänliga hälsningar
Nol
